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  1. #1
    Sharon
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    Israel

    I am pretty shaken by what has happened to Ariel Sharon, and the implications for Israel in the future (good and bad). And it made me wonder...

    What place does Israel have in your Judaism (if any)?

    Do you follow events in Israel? Are you familiar with the major players? Do you follow just the conflict, or other aspects of Israel?

    Have you been? Did you find any part of yourself there?
    Nov. 2, 2002 - Jordan Born
    Dec 19, 2002 - May 23, 2003 raising fabulous baby Jordan in Antigua
    May23, 2003 - Jordan home

    2006 Waiting to fost-adopt


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  3. #2
    Sconi
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    I am not Jewish, however, I think it's horrible what has happened to Sharon. Last night at my prayer service, my group said a prayer for him. He has done so much to try and reach peace and I feel if we lose him, all of his work will be undone.
    Me (30 something)
    TTC #1 for 14 months after not trying for 2 years.
    Bella was born 4/17/06!!


  4. #3
    AmyP
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    Oh Sharon - this is sooo complicated and such an important question. Here are some random and conflicting thoughts.

    1) I am aware of politics in Israel - but not informed
    2) I believe that Jews should have a safe homeland
    3) I am often horrified by the things Israel does - and I despsrately want to feel proud of them
    4) There is a part of me that believes they have no choice. Whilst I think Sharon (despite recent softening) and Netenyahu have worsened matters with their hawkish and aggressive tone - Barak seemed to do all the right things - and it didn't help.
    5) Sometimes I think that Arabs will want Israel destroyed no matter what, therefore the Israelis should always take the high road in order to get the support of the rest of the world.
    Sometimes I think that, internationally, anti-semitism will run high regardless of what Israel does.
    6) When American Jews are unqualified in their support of Israel - it makes me quesasy - esp. when it leads them to support George Bush. (My brother's wife is an Israeli and they are ardent supporters of Bush because they think he is "good for Israel". This blows my mind)

    That's it for now - I am interested to see what everyone has to say!
    Amy

    Mom to Mia
    born Guatemala 4/2/2000
    home to Boston 7/5/2001


  5. #4
    Sharon
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    Amy,

    I know, in theory, that there are Israelis that think GWB is "good for Israel" but I have never met one. Most Israelis I know (because that's the circles I run in), are Labor, or Meretz, or Chadash (center left, further left, and woa so far left you don't have folks like that in the US). My MIL is on the right side of the political map and even she doesn't like Bush.

    I think I asked the question because I wonder if American Jews still consider Israel, as the Jewish State, to be part of their guarantee against antisemitism, and whether it is still a spiritual home for people.

    As for me--aside from it being my first home I also find its existence imperative for our survival as a Jewish people. While I strongly disagree with some policies of the government I feel we have nothing to be ashamed of compared to the US for instance. Never mind the Arab countries.

    I have been horrified at some actions, most notably the history of occupation, but Israel does many things right as well. Living in the Bay Area I get so frustrated at the Jewish community which often condems Israel without ever giving credit.

    As for Sharon and Bibi. Two very different stories. I find Bibi to be so despicable. Not a positive word to say about him and not enough space to say all the bad things I think. Sharon evokes more mixed feelings. DH and I were talking about it today and it really has to do with the fact that he is one of the last two dinasaurs of Israeli politics. Peres is the other one. I won't miss him, although the lack of anyone else to replace the dinasaurs scares me.

    I wish I could lead tours of "my Israel" for American Jews. I used to take "missions" to some environemnatl projects as part of my job. It always amazed me what a "packaged" view they got, and how hard it was to get them out of the "package". I once took a bus load of folks to a protest tent where college students, old Arab men, and local kibbutzniks were protesting the building of a highway through some open land. They sat in the tent, had coffee from the finjan and actually got a whiff of the real place, not the Jerusalem Hilton. It doesn't happen often.

    Maybe I should never have posted the question since its so involved. But for me, without Israel, our days as a Jewish people are numbered.
    Nov. 2, 2002 - Jordan Born
    Dec 19, 2002 - May 23, 2003 raising fabulous baby Jordan in Antigua
    May23, 2003 - Jordan home

    2006 Waiting to fost-adopt


  6. #5
    AmyP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon
    I think I asked the question because I wonder if American Jews still consider Israel, as the Jewish State, to be part of their guarantee against antisemitism, and whether it is still a spiritual home for people.
    I guess I think Israel is a back up plan if we ever have boatloads of Jewish refugees from the next Germany floating around the world and nobody will take us. On the one hand I don't expect it to happen, on the other hand it feels right that we will always have a home.

    On the other hand...Israel does not feel like a spiritual home to me.... Brookline does. (kinda serious)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon
    I wish I could lead tours of "my Israel" for American Jews. I used to take "missions" to some environemnatl projects as part of my job. It always amazed me what a "packaged" view they got, and how hard it was to get them out of the "package". I once took a bus load of folks to a protest tent where college students, old Arab men, and local kibbutzniks were protesting the building of a highway through some open land. They sat in the tent, had coffee from the finjan and actually got a whiff of the real place, not the Jerusalem Hilton. It doesn't happen often.
    OK - take us! Leah (DP)has always wanted to go - and Mia is a VERY good traveller

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon
    Maybe I should never have posted the question since its so involved. But for me, without Israel, our days as a Jewish people are numbered.
    I'm very glad you asked the question. It is wonderful to have the chance to discuss this complicated and emotional question!
    Amy

    Mom to Mia
    born Guatemala 4/2/2000
    home to Boston 7/5/2001


  7. #6
    Sharon
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    You tell Leah that if she buys my ticket, I'll take her ;-)

    How does she feel about sleeping under the stars in the desert, going to the beach almost everyday, and eating hummus for breakfast?

    I've been really homesick--can you tell?!

    Edited to add: I just reread that and it reads like a personals ad. LOL. Dh is the desert freak (grew up in Sde Boker in the Negev), I am the beach nut (Tel Aviv girl through and through), hummus is everybody.
    Nov. 2, 2002 - Jordan Born
    Dec 19, 2002 - May 23, 2003 raising fabulous baby Jordan in Antigua
    May23, 2003 - Jordan home

    2006 Waiting to fost-adopt


  8. #7
    AmyP
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    Sounds great! I went to Israel when I was 15 (don't even ask how long ago THAT was) and I'll never forget it as long as I live. One standout was being just incredibly hot and tired taking a bus in the desert and then getting off at a kibbutz - Ramat Ha Kovesh (but don't ask me what I ate for lunch today) Anyway - it was like stepping into heaven. I promise you that the temperature was 15 degrees cooler - Everything was lush and green and smelled incredibly sweet. The other things I remember were the street vendors selling falafels - I've never ahd one like it since - and the contrast between the Jewish and Arab areas - it was like rounding a corner and going back in time over 100 years (I hope that is not disrespectful - that was my strong 15 year old impression.


    I don't blame you for being homesick! It's a very special place.
    Amy

    Mom to Mia
    born Guatemala 4/2/2000
    home to Boston 7/5/2001


  9. #8
    Sharon
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    Dang...now I really want falafel and its 9:37pm in the Bay Area where there is NO good falafel.
    Nov. 2, 2002 - Jordan Born
    Dec 19, 2002 - May 23, 2003 raising fabulous baby Jordan in Antigua
    May23, 2003 - Jordan home

    2006 Waiting to fost-adopt


  10. #9
    cooroo
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    Not answering the question, cause it's a hard question and I don't have a ton of time right now, but...

    We have a great Israeli owned felafel stand here. I feel like I'm at Felafel King in Jerusalem--minus the fact that people aren't hovered around the vegi bar continually re-packing their pita with cabbage and pickles after each bite.

    xo-coo
    ttc: 4+ yrs me: 36, DH: 37
    3 natural m/c
    6 IUIs: 4 BFN, 1 m/c, 1 chem
    IVF #1 BFN IVF #2 BFN NO MORE TX
    Going to China Late Summer '07???


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