An explanation for our Unexplained IF

Hoping4#3 · 12-29-2007, 05:22 PM

I wanted to share this story, just in case I can help someone else out there.

CHILDREN and Possible pg. mentioned

I am a healthy 30 year old woman with a healthy 38 yr. old husband. We have 2 boys that were conceived naturally. When the youngest was 2 we decided to try again. It has been two years and we have been through IUI's, clomid, femara, follistim and now IVF. All of our labs were good (dh's and mine) and our tests all showed within normal range. The dr. didn't have an explaination for our infertility. Our chart said "unspecified."

Anyway, we finally decided to go the IVF route, since nothing else seemed to be working. We were encouraged by the nurse to try ICSI with half of our eggs, "just to cover all of our bases." Well I'm glad we did. We retrieved 30 eggs, of which they attempted to fertilize 12 by ICSI and the rest naturally. NONE of the eggs left to fertlize naturally actually fertilized! We were shocked!

Apparently, the reason we weren't getting pregnant was because the sperm wasn't penetrating the egg! We later learned that there was a test that could of told us this a year ago, before we went through all of the treatment! It's called the Sperm Penetration Assay or SPA. Our RE's office doesn't normally do the test, which is why it wasn't offered, but the embryologist said that if we wanted to do it, she could get some hamster ova to perform the test. Basically what they do is put dh's sperm with hamster eggs to see if they fertilize! Who knew?

So my point is, if we had done this test, we would have been out about $500, but we wouldn't have wasted over half of our eggs that we retrieved by attempting to let them fertilize naturally. So if you're going to spend big bucks on IVF, and your IF is unexplained, then it is worth it to have the SPA test done first!

As of right now, I am 7dp5dt and I just got a faint BFP! My official beta is Monday, so I'll know for sure if it's a BFP then.

Good luck to you all!

henypeny · 01-13-2008, 10:12 AM

Thanks for your story. Is this test the same as the sperm DNA Fragmentation(integrity) test done my Millenova Immunology lab? I have been asking DH to do this test but he is not interested to do the test now because he thinks it is not worth the money and if any problem arises what can be done.

Kellennea · 01-16-2008, 03:53 PM

Very interesting -thank you!

Hoping4#3 · 01-16-2008, 05:17 PM

Henypeny- I don't think it's the same as the sperm dna fragmentation test, but I'm not sure. I've only heard it called the Sperm Penetration Assay or SPA. Here is a link for more information.

Just an update on me- My beta showed a bfp, and we have seen a gest. sac and a yolk sac so far.

**BC-Tabithalyn** · 01-21-2008, 09:22 PM

hopingfor#3... Wow! good news but I have some Q's for you please:

how did they explain that the sperm did not penetrate after already conceiving 2 children?? Is it something that can SUDDENLY happen after having children with that partner??? is there an age-related thing anywhere in there (about the egg getting harder as we age??)

Also how do they know your hubby's sperm can't penetrate your ovum by using a hampster's??? to me that just sounds wrong! wouldn't there be special signals and DNA stuff going on with your body that is unique to you and not same as in a hampster??

thnx for advising about it all ...if it works for others as well to get ICSI that's a wonderful help for many!
Ally

Hoping4#3 · 01-21-2008, 09:32 PM

Unfortunately, I don't really have any answers for you Tabithalyn. They didn't really explain how (or why) this would happen now, when we so easily conceived our first 2 children. I'm assuming it has more to do with dh's sperm than with my eggs, but I could be completely wrong.

I don't know why they use hamster eggs either. I guess becuase they are more readily available, where as you have to medicate and trigger a woman to ovulate several eggs for testing. It's not practical. Maybe hamster eggs exhibit the same properties as human eggs?!

I wish I could help more with your questions. They would be good questions for the embryologist at your RE though! Let us know if you do get any answers!

Good luck!

12-29-2007, 05:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Hoping4#3 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NC Posts: 1,455	An explanation for our Unexplained IF I wanted to share this story, just in case I can help someone else out there. CHILDREN and Possible pg. mentioned I am a healthy 30 year old woman with a healthy 38 yr. old husband. We have 2 boys that were conceived naturally. When the youngest was 2 we decided to try again. It has been two years and we have been through IUI's, clomid, femara, follistim and now IVF. All of our labs were good (dh's and mine) and our tests all showed within normal range. The dr. didn't have an explaination for our infertility. Our chart said "unspecified." Anyway, we finally decided to go the IVF route, since nothing else seemed to be working. We were encouraged by the nurse to try ICSI with half of our eggs, "just to cover all of our bases." Well I'm glad we did. We retrieved 30 eggs, of which they attempted to fertilize 12 by ICSI and the rest naturally. NONE of the eggs left to fertlize naturally actually fertilized! We were shocked! Apparently, the reason we weren't getting pregnant was because the sperm wasn't penetrating the egg! We later learned that there was a test that could of told us this a year ago, before we went through all of the treatment! It's called the Sperm Penetration Assay or SPA. Our RE's office doesn't normally do the test, which is why it wasn't offered, but the embryologist said that if we wanted to do it, she could get some hamster ova to perform the test. Basically what they do is put dh's sperm with hamster eggs to see if they fertilize! Who knew? So my point is, if we had done this test, we would have been out about $500, but we wouldn't have wasted over half of our eggs that we retrieved by attempting to let them fertilize naturally. So if you're going to spend big bucks on IVF, and your IF is unexplained, then it is worth it to have the SPA test done first! As of right now, I am 7dp5dt and I just got a faint BFP! My official beta is Monday, so I'll know for sure if it's a BFP then. Good luck to you all!

01-16-2008, 03:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Kellennea Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicagoland Area Posts: 3,613	Very interesting -thank you! __________________ Me:41/ DH:39 TTC#1 for what seems like FOREVER! - Unexplained IUI's all BFN, except 1- ended in MC 2 IVF's - bfn, 1 FET - bfn. Breaks over... "Let's do this!"

01-21-2008, 09:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
BC-Tabithalyn 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 3,526	hopingfor#3... Wow! good news but I have some Q's for you please: how did they explain that the sperm did not penetrate after already conceiving 2 children?? Is it something that can SUDDENLY happen after having children with that partner??? is there an age-related thing anywhere in there (about the egg getting harder as we age??) Also how do they know your hubby's sperm can't penetrate your ovum by using a hampster's??? to me that just sounds wrong! wouldn't there be special signals and DNA stuff going on with your body that is unique to you and not same as in a hampster?? thnx for advising about it all ...if it works for others as well to get ICSI that's a wonderful help for many! Ally __________________ TTC #1 for 5 + yrs (multiple losses) -IMMUNE ISSUES -used IVIg/Heparin&BA/Prednisone -SUCCESS: DS Travis-James born Jan 2/03 -TTC #2 - 2 more angels -Feb/06 had LIT immune tx. - now... :

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01-13-2008, 10:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
henypeny 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA Posts: 65	Thanks for your story. Is this test the same as the sperm DNA Fragmentation(integrity) test done my Millenova Immunology lab? I have been asking DH to do this test but he is not interested to do the test now because he thinks it is not worth the money and if any problem arises what can be done.

01-16-2008, 05:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
Hoping4#3 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NC Posts: 1,455	Henypeny- I don't think it's the same as the sperm dna fragmentation test, but I'm not sure. I've only heard it called the Sperm Penetration Assay or SPA. Here is a link for more information. Just an update on me- My beta showed a bfp, and we have seen a gest. sac and a yolk sac so far.

01-21-2008, 09:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
Hoping4#3 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NC Posts: 1,455	Unfortunately, I don't really have any answers for you Tabithalyn. They didn't really explain how (or why) this would happen now, when we so easily conceived our first 2 children. I'm assuming it has more to do with dh's sperm than with my eggs, but I could be completely wrong. I don't know why they use hamster eggs either. I guess becuase they are more readily available, where as you have to medicate and trigger a woman to ovulate several eggs for testing. It's not practical. Maybe hamster eggs exhibit the same properties as human eggs?! I wish I could help more with your questions. They would be good questions for the embryologist at your RE though! Let us know if you do get any answers! Good luck!