WHY do you believe in heaven?

[Sym]

Why do you believe in heaven, or life after death, or a "better place"?
Is it because you've read the bible? because someone taught you these ideas?, because it is easier/better to think of angels in heaven vs. corpses in the ground?

I have, throughout my life been torn up and down the scale of:

Belief---------(everything in between)------------Non-belief.

Not too sure where I stand right now.
I have had complete faith, and none. I have tried to believe, and tried to dismiss belief. I have been up and down the scale so to speak. I have prayed, spoken to ministers, people of faith, people of none etc, trying to figure it out.

I think many people have at some point in their lives.
Why do you believe in what you do?
I'm not really looking for quotes. Ppl can quote other ppl, and follow their beliefs, but at the end of the day, those quotes ARE just someone elses words and beliefs that have been written down. Possibly even the bible itself, so please, if you respond, no quotes from religious materials.
I;m really just wondering...


Why do YOU believe or not believe?


My reasons:

Believe- I have actually had my heart stop, and seen the "light" heard the "voice" etc.

Non-Belief:
I wonder...did I hear it or was it just an idealism I wanted to believe in??

Belief: I went to church until I was a teenager, and I was taught from the bible, that there is God, heaven, miracles etc.

Non-belief- The bible could have just been the largest book ever written. How do we KNOW its contents really happened??

Belief: I WANT to believe that I have "guardian angels" if-you-will, looking over me, that I will float off to "heaven" when I die and not just lay in a box in the ground etc.

Non-belief: Where is the proof??
Ppls heart stop all the time, and they are revived. Can even THEY offer proof that any of this "good" stuff is real and not just something they'd LIKE to beieve in??
I can't- obviously.
Science and technology can prove MANY MANY tings these day, but it can't even begin to prove the theory of life after death. Where is Jesus's body? Did anyone ever even think of proving he was real? Anyone else named in the bible ever found and identified as being real??

What is your opinion on this?
WHY do you believe??

[Dawn]

Hi
I grew up in a catholic home and was taught at the knee about God and Jesus, heaven and hell, and the Bible. I fell away as a teen and young adult and came back to Christ in my 30's. (I'm glad He was waiting patiently for me too!)

I believe the Bible is God's true word. I believe this not only because I have faith, but because it makes sense. If you look at the human body, with its zillions of cells and complex make up and consider that each and every cell is exactly where it needs to be to cause the human form to function - you have to admit it has order and logic. Too much order and logic to have happened by coincidence. Looking at the world and how logical the laws of physics, nature, and biology are, I have to believe in a divine creator. I have to admit that I believe in the "big bang" theory - that being God Spoke and BANG it happened!

Believing that the Bible is God's word - it is the next step to believe in heaven and hell because the Bible speaks about both these places. I've never seen either place, but I think I have caught glimpses of them - in my daughter's eyes, in times of great pain, and in times of extreme closeness with God.

I believe in angels because the Bible says they exist. In fact, I think having an angel appear to you must be very frightening because whenever they show up in the Bible, the first thing they say is "Don't be afraid".

Jesus said to Thomas "you have believed because you have seen, but blessed are those who believe who have NOT seen."

Another way to look at it is this: I would rather believe and serve God in this life, making an effort to obey his commands and seek the forgiveness of the cross now - and find out when I die that I was wrong and there is no God than to live any old way I want, sinning my way to my grave and die and find out there is a God and I'm on the express track to hell because of my earthly sins. God is a perfect and just God who is perfectly holy and righteous and punishes sin where ever He finds it. So thinking that God is a loving God who would never send someone to hell is wrong thinking. He doesn't want to send us to hell for our sins, that is why He sent His son to be a perfect and holy sacrifice for us. Jesus took the punishment for our sins so we wouldn't have to. That sacrifice is proof that God is a loving God. Can you imagine trading your child for a sinful world? I can't. But God did. What love that must be.

Finally, for the most skeptical I point to the historical writings from the time period in which Jesus lived. Jesus's live is mentioned and documented in writings of scholars from that era who saw Him or knew of him. Modern science has undertaken the task of disproving His existence and has only so far been able to prove it.

I believe because my heart and soul tell me He's with me and loves me.

What I don't get is the people who don't believe at all. If they think this world is all there is, how do they find any peace?

in Him,
Dawn

[BC-tinatinva]

Why do I beleive - Faith mostly

and.. example. There are many things that are promised in the Bible that have been proven to me.
Give and you shall receive tenfold - proof in my life
Ask and it shall be given unto you.. - proof in my life.

It is a Faith walk with our Lord.. for me that let's me know that the things that are yet unseen to me are true, because those same things that were once unseen and have now been seen by me did happen.

[leef]

Going through IF has really been a life crisis for me. I am not a spiritual person. I believe science can explain most phenomena. Science cannot prove life after death because there is no evidence. Life after death is a belief that cannot be proven because that's all it is-- just an idea, nothing more.
I still strive to be good and just and help the weak (esp. animals, but for no reason other than it makes me feel good to know I'm helping. Sometimes I wish I was more spiritual to help me through IF, but I just don't have it in me...
Religion has been the cause of so much pain in humanity. People use it in so many wrong ways to exploit the weak, genocide, wars. I don't have a very good opinion of organized religion in general. I'm glad religion helps some people, but why force your beliefs on others? This is very wrong. It's an excuse to have power over others.

[VasudevaDas]

Leef,
A couple of points:
1. Its good to distinguish between religion and religiosity. Religion is an experience that happens in an individual by the grace of divinity. It’s a special connection – much like love. Some may never experience love – while others experience it easily. Out of this experience, which my guru refers to at times as a love affair between man and divinity, something very special is created. But then the person that had that experience, e.g. Jesus, leaves his body (or, if you prefer, dies), and his legacy remains behind him. Over time, if there is no continuation of the special relationship by another person that is as close to divinity as was the originator, all that is let is religiosity - which is people trying to imitate what was once an original experience. My guru describes it as a hollow tree trunk that was once connected with an underground water stream (divinity) but with the roots gone there is only an empty structure left… Another way he describes it is as follows: say an alien from another planet - were there are no feelings, comes to Earth and is asked to write a report about what love is. Being that the alien never experienced love himself he writes in the report that love is “when he brings her flowers, when she hugs him, when he kisses her, when she cooks him a nice meal”, etc. But… here is the point: all these phenomenas may happen when there is love but if someone goes through all these motions it does not indicate by necessity love is there... The motions are a by-product of love and not vice verse. Same with religion. When someone has a love affair with God he does certain things because he is in love. Not because he has to. But because he wants it in all his body and soul. If you were in love you know what I am referring too… He thinks of God all the time, he says blessings and thanks, he prays, etc. But doing all these by just anyone does not mean this love will appear… Religiosity (or the constitutional religion) forces people to follow certain motions regardless of what that person really feels and by that it may be doing wrong and even create resentment to the pure element that was once there – religion. I have the grace of practicing with a guru who is very much against religiosity. He himself is realized and is 100% religious – religious because it’s a by-product of his love. But he asks of his disciples very little. He asks us to strife to do things but it’s never forced e.g. in Vaishnava coffee is not allowed as no addictive elements are allowed. Yet there is coffee in the ashram so if a disciple wants coffee he can have it and no one will even look at his cup or in the slightest manner criticize him. All that the guru is asking is that when you do feel like having coffee carefully observe yourself: what arises in you and how you respond to it. Change happens not by mere will. If you are pushed and forced to change, much like in physics, resistance is created. Don’t push because you will be pushed back (by what we call material energy, also called illusion or maya). Just sit back and observe yourself. You will be amazed some time later to notice how you have changed… :-)
Now to your point about religion being used in a negative way – true. It can (be used badly). So can explosives. They can be used for destruction of life but they can also be used for construction (of roads etc). So its not the device that is bad, it’s the use that human do with it. Religion can be beautiful as at the same time, put in the wrong hands, it can be disastrous. Look at the Christian Spanish inquisition several hundreds of years ago… (not the Mel Brookes version… :-)

2. I used to be more science oriented. But there are so many things science cannot explain. And there are so many things that science explains wrongly i.e. come up with a theory only to have it proved wrong some years later with another more modern theory. When you look at the greatest scientists of all times most if not all of them were to one level or another religious… Even Albert Einstein… And for a good reason.

HK
VD

[Dawn]

Leef,
I am a Christian and have been for a long time. I am not, however, a follower of any particular religion - mostly because I agree with you - organized religion has been manipulated to glorify men and to fatten wallets. One such organization insist on a 10% tithe that leaves members short of cash to buy necessities while the "elders" of the church are among the richest people in the nation. Another large segment uses the pulpit in an attempt to control world governments and further their own agenda-no matter who is harmed in the process (look at the church's position on the use of condoms and the disaterous effect it is having on the African nations that are mostly of that segment AIDS is running wild because people won't use condoms because the head of that large organization says they'll go to hell if they do - I've looked for this in the Bible and I find no scripture that condems birth control). Yet another segmant - well, they have fallen so far away from following scripture that I'm not certain what to think of them. I think a lot of people are falling away from organized religion for these reasons and others. This is evidenced by the churches in my area that are beginning to spring up and thrive - nondenominational christian churches. There are two in the area that have several thousand members each. They hold to no doctrine and law other than that handed down by God and written in the Bible.

It is important to understand that even though more harm has been done to humanity in the name of God, Allah, Budda, and others - it is not God's will or doing. It is man's MISUSE, misunderstanding, error and self centeredness that cause bad things to happen. For example, 9-11 was carried out by men who were waging a holy war in the name of their god. They had the (mistaken) belief that killing infidels would win them a place of honor in heaven. Their beliefs are a perversion of Islam - which is by and large a peaceful religion. But now half the world fears all people who practice Islam because of 18 wackos who twisted it to suit their own evil agenda.

No where in the Bible does God condone actions such as the spanish inquisition. I believe He must have wept to see His name and Word twisted and perverted to suit the purpose of power hungry individuals.

As for proof God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are real? Knowing that doubters often won't take the step of faith required, I often point out the historical writings of other people who lived during and after Jesus's life and death who are considered to be trustworthy sources by scholars and scientists alike:
Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120) was considered the greatest historian of ancient Rome. He wrote of Nero who "punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus [Christ], the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originiated, but through the city of Rome also."

Also, Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian, (A.D. 38-100+) wrote about Jesus in his Jewish Antiquities, saying that Jesus was a wise man who did surprising feats, taught many, won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, that Jesus was believed to be the Messiah, was accused by the Jewish leaders, was condemned to be crucified by Pilate, and was considered to be resurrected.

The existence of Jesus Christ is recorded not only by Josephus and Tacitus, but also by ancient writers such as Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, and Lucian. And from the Jewish Talmud, "we learn that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, gathered disciples, made blasphemous claims about himself, and worked miracles, but these miracles are attributed to sorcery and not to God."

Thus, historians both favorable and unfavorable regarding Jesus did write about him. Also there were many historical writings about the early Christians.

Note: Many people also have an internal source of confirmation that Jesus existed, and still exists today. The Bible says that God by His Spirit bears witness of Christ (John 15:26) and convinces the world concerning Him (John 16:8-11). So it's possible for someone without access to ancient historical writings or the Bible to believe that Jesus was real. A person can hear about Jesus from another source, and God can confirm it by His Spirit. This is where I stand. I've heard the voice of God. I've been filled with the Holy Spirit and it is an amazing feeling. It confirms beyond all doubt that He exists and He loves us.

Dawn

(words marked with italics were edited by the board mod)

[Lizza]

Growing up I was taught to believe in Heaven. However... I always had questions about Heaven, Hell and GOD. Mostly out of curiousity. I do believe in Heaven today because, there has to be a BETTER place we can go to once we pass.If there is a Hell, Earth has to be pretty close to it! However, I do NOT believe in Hell or a Devil so to speak. I believe in Evil, believe people can be Evil and instead I believe when we pass if we do not make it to Heaven then we will stay in Purgatory.
I am a Catholic who does not agree w/h the Pope. Don't care for his views on Birth Control or IVF. This comment was not made to start any kind of controversy. I just happened to read some of Dawn's post and she posted some of my exact same feelings.