2 failed DE cycles - Any Advice?

Baby Steps · 03-02-2009, 07:33 AM

Hi blessed Moms and Moms-to-be. I hope you don't mind if I step in and ask for advice, please!

We are in a shared risk package, and have had 2 out of 6 possible fresh cycles end in BFN. I know there are no guarenties, even with the high success rates. But I fear something else is wrong that has not been diagnosed. My DH is perfect and I just have 42 yr old eggs, but uterus and other tests are good.

I have very little faith my clinic or RE, but this is the only program we can afford. My RE never follows up after failed cycles and doesn't seem to have any intention of further testing beyond what was done prior to acceptance in the DE shared risk program. Even though we aren't out anything more financially, I don't want to invest physically or emotionally in another cycle if we should be seeking further testing from a different doctor, if necessary.

Do any of you have any suggestions regarding what kind, if any, additional testing I should potentially seek? I can't find any help online regarding multiple failed DE cycles. I don't even know what kind of DR to seek- or testing to seek, other than possibly immunity testing.

Any experience, advice, or knowlege you can share is sincerly appreciated.

**BC-BabyPrayers09** · 03-06-2009, 02:24 PM

Baby Steps:

Firstly, I am so sorry for your losses

I know as well as any, the pain that your feeling.

How locked in are you with this shared risk cycling? That was always my fear of doing that, I was afraid that I would not be happy, then have to stay.
Do you lose money if you leave?
How much control do you have about picking out the donors?
Are they proven donors, or first time ones?
Have the other recipients in your cycles gotten pg? If so, then maybe your just not getting the best of the bunch, kwim?
Does the clinic do a 3 or 5 day transfer?

Sorry for all the questions, but it just helps to evaluate the situation a bit better.

DadToBe · 04-11-2009, 11:01 AM

Baby Steps -

Did you use the same egg donor both times? How many eggs were retrieved, and how many made it on to fertilization and to blastocysts?

Also, you might want to consider having your husband's sperm analyzed.
With us ... we failed our first IVF attempt. Then, all of a sudden our embryologist and RE suggested we had our sperm tests (we're a male-male couple using a GS and egg donor) because they said that even though both of our sperm counts were high, we could still have a high ratio of sperm DNA fragmentation. Sperm with fragmented DNA will still fertilize the eggs, but they will fail to develop and implant.

We used SCSA diagnostics (www.scsadiagnotics.com) and the cost was very minimal (compared to the overall cost of this whole IVF thing!!), so it was worth knowing.

Like yourself, I also have little faith in our RE. He seems to be juggling too many cases to give any which one any sort of personal attention they all need.

But, alas ... we're in our second 2WW now.

Also, of course there's PGD (pre-genetic determination/diagnosis). Although many would recommend this due to success with this, I would never recommend this due to a bad personal experience with it - although it was a bad experience due to our specific clinic. With our first IVF cycle, we had 18 embryos. The RE insured us over and over that PGD has zero effects on the embryos - that pulling off one of their cells would not lead to any negative effects on them. Well, to keep it short, after the PGD, all embryos stopped developing.

rjc0704 · 04-13-2009, 02:04 PM

DadToBe - Hope the 2ww yielded a BFP! I hope it worked for you!

I'm in the same boat as BabySteps. Your post caught my eye b/c my DH was given a very good analysis report and we have been unsuccessful even with donor eggs. My testing dictates no implantation issues. We've had 3 cycles with 3 different donors. The first donor was cancelled for poor response. The 2nd and 3rd donors were almost cancelled. 1st cycle we had 8/9 fertilize, transferred 2 blasts (aa, ab) 1 frozen. BFN. The 2nd cycle we had 15/16 fertilize, transferred 2 blasts (ab, ab) BFN. We were shocked and devestated that on day 5 we transferred 2 and had 13 to freeze and they said none made it.

No one has suggested additional testing on DH. Thanks for the link. We will definately look into the possiblity of DNA fragmentation.

DadToBe · 04-13-2009, 02:39 PM

Rhonda,

You're welcome. I'm so sorry for all that you've been put through.
I honestly can tell you that I absolutely understand the turmoil and frustration that you must have felt and are feeling. Not just financially, but these processes take such an emotional toll.

I'll keep you updated on what happens, but our beta got moved up from this coming Thursday to Wednesday (April 15th).

rjc0704 · 04-14-2009, 08:53 AM

Fingers crossed for you guys and your BFP!!! I hope your Dads right now! I know how hard the 2ww is...trying be cautiously optimistic w/o getting hopes up too much!

You are so right about the emotional toll. And it's affects both partners. Even though we are in a shared risk package and it won't cost us more finanically to continue, the emotional toll is still a big factor. And with 71% success rates and two failed cycles, I can't help but wonder if something else is wrong with him or me. The RE just says, it will happen eventually. We don't faith in him and would switch clinics if there were others with comparable shared risk refund packages. So, I am searching for any additional testing and doing it on my own. My clinic isn't advanced enough for PGD, in fact, their lab only has about 50% of patients with any to freeze. So that is a factor too. This entire process is sooo intense. I feel like I'm earning a degree in IF! Sure you can relate!

Again, prayers for your BFP tomorrow!!!

4cats · 04-14-2009, 09:49 AM

I was given the DE speech after a couple failed IVFs. Since we couldn't afford DE anyways, AND I had suspicions that there might me more wrong with DH than low counts we tried DS IUIs. Well it turns out it was him and it only took a couple DS IUIs to get one that stuck. I wish we'd done more testing on DH sperm before we'd done 3 IVFs w ICSI! I'm hoping your testing reveals what the problem is and saves you more emotional and physical stress.

DadToBe · 04-14-2009, 05:51 PM

Rhonda -

I'm so excited to report to you that our beta was actually bumped up to today by our RE even though he's on vacation in Israel, and it came back positive!!!!

The HCG was 402 and we're 12dp5dt.

We're definitely happy and excited, but at the same time, we're cautiously excited.
I think anyone who's gone through IVF disappointments like your family and ours know too well that they need to brace themselves for the any possibilities.

rjc0704 · 04-21-2009, 06:36 AM

DADS - OMGOSH!! OMGOSH!! OMGOSH!! OMGOSH!!

CONGRATS!!! That's awesome!!! I know you're cautiously optimistic and eager for the first U/S!! Will you guys get to be there for that throughout? SURE HOPE SO!! How exciting! Soooo happy for you!

4cats - thanks for the well wishes. We are definately seeking additional testing before our next cycle.

We picked a new donor at the end of march, but learned she was a bit dishonest on her profile and is a social smoker. She swears it won't be an issue and I'm waiting for her nicotine test results now. We are afraid come cyle time she will smoke and they cancel the cycle. I'm waiting to see if they will let us choose another donor

DadToBe · 04-21-2009, 06:56 AM

Thank you, Rhonda!
Our ultrasound is next Wednesday, April 29th. Work is letting me off for the afternoon so I'll get to be there with our surrogate.

I'll let you know what they see. Definitely very nervous and anxious, though.

03-02-2009, 07:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
Baby Steps Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere in CT Posts: 5	2 failed DE cycles - Any Advice? Hi blessed Moms and Moms-to-be. I hope you don't mind if I step in and ask for advice, please! We are in a shared risk package, and have had 2 out of 6 possible fresh cycles end in BFN. I know there are no guarenties, even with the high success rates. But I fear something else is wrong that has not been diagnosed. My DH is perfect and I just have 42 yr old eggs, but uterus and other tests are good. I have very little faith my clinic or RE, but this is the only program we can afford. My RE never follows up after failed cycles and doesn't seem to have any intention of further testing beyond what was done prior to acceptance in the DE shared risk program. Even though we aren't out anything more financially, I don't want to invest physically or emotionally in another cycle if we should be seeking further testing from a different doctor, if necessary. Do any of you have any suggestions regarding what kind, if any, additional testing I should potentially seek? I can't find any help online regarding multiple failed DE cycles. I don't even know what kind of DR to seek- or testing to seek, other than possibly immunity testing. Any experience, advice, or knowlege you can share is sincerly appreciated.

04-13-2009, 02:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
rjc0704 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, CT Posts: 1,184	DadToBe - Hope the 2ww yielded a BFP! I hope it worked for you! I'm in the same boat as BabySteps. Your post caught my eye b/c my DH was given a very good analysis report and we have been unsuccessful even with donor eggs. My testing dictates no implantation issues. We've had 3 cycles with 3 different donors. The first donor was cancelled for poor response. The 2nd and 3rd donors were almost cancelled. 1st cycle we had 8/9 fertilize, transferred 2 blasts (aa, ab) 1 frozen. BFN. The 2nd cycle we had 15/16 fertilize, transferred 2 blasts (ab, ab) BFN. We were shocked and devestated that on day 5 we transferred 2 and had 13 to freeze and they said none made it. No one has suggested additional testing on DH. Thanks for the link. We will definately look into the possiblity of DNA fragmentation. __________________ Rhonda & DH Immunity Issues, IR, hydrosalpinx tube ttc#1: 5 long years 3 natural preg - all m/c before 8wks 1 IVF - cancelled-poor response 11/06 On to Donor Cycles: 3 Fresh DE-IVF - BFN BFN BFN 1 FET - BFN 2nd FET - 1 blast lived - Currently in Beta HELL- beta#1: 26 12dp5dt beta#2: 53 14dp5dt beta#3: 17dp5dt

04-14-2009, 08:53 AM	#6 (permalink)
rjc0704 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, CT Posts: 1,184	Fingers crossed for you guys and your BFP!!! I hope your Dads right now! I know how hard the 2ww is...trying be cautiously optimistic w/o getting hopes up too much! You are so right about the emotional toll. And it's affects both partners. Even though we are in a shared risk package and it won't cost us more finanically to continue, the emotional toll is still a big factor. And with 71% success rates and two failed cycles, I can't help but wonder if something else is wrong with him or me. The RE just says, it will happen eventually. We don't faith in him and would switch clinics if there were others with comparable shared risk refund packages. So, I am searching for any additional testing and doing it on my own. My clinic isn't advanced enough for PGD, in fact, their lab only has about 50% of patients with any to freeze. So that is a factor too. This entire process is sooo intense. I feel like I'm earning a degree in IF! Sure you can relate! Again, prayers for your BFP tomorrow!!! __________________ Rhonda & DH Immunity Issues, IR, hydrosalpinx tube ttc#1: 5 long years 3 natural preg - all m/c before 8wks 1 IVF - cancelled-poor response 11/06 On to Donor Cycles: 3 Fresh DE-IVF - BFN BFN BFN 1 FET - BFN 2nd FET - 1 blast lived - Currently in Beta HELL- beta#1: 26 12dp5dt beta#2: 53 14dp5dt beta#3: 17dp5dt

04-21-2009, 06:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
rjc0704 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, CT Posts: 1,184	DADS - OMGOSH!! OMGOSH!! OMGOSH!! OMGOSH!! CONGRATS!!! That's awesome!!! I know you're cautiously optimistic and eager for the first U/S!! Will you guys get to be there for that throughout? SURE HOPE SO!! How exciting! Soooo happy for you! 4cats - thanks for the well wishes. We are definately seeking additional testing before our next cycle. We picked a new donor at the end of march, but learned she was a bit dishonest on her profile and is a social smoker. She swears it won't be an issue and I'm waiting for her nicotine test results now. We are afraid come cyle time she will smoke and they cancel the cycle. I'm waiting to see if they will let us choose another donor __________________ Rhonda & DH Immunity Issues, IR, hydrosalpinx tube ttc#1: 5 long years 3 natural preg - all m/c before 8wks 1 IVF - cancelled-poor response 11/06 On to Donor Cycles: 3 Fresh DE-IVF - BFN BFN BFN 1 FET - BFN 2nd FET - 1 blast lived - Currently in Beta HELL- beta#1: 26 12dp5dt beta#2: 53 14dp5dt beta#3: 17dp5dt

VISIT OUR SISTER SITES:
JustMommies Pregnancy Calendar	eHarmony Advice Dating Advice	Project Wedding Wedding Songs	Weddingbee Wedding Blog


Discussion Forums Infertility Pregnancy Adoption Surrogacy Parenting Community Forum Tickers Forum Avatars Chat Room Forum Acronyms Forum FAQ _________________ Log In Register Blogs Infertility GENERAL INFORMATION Blocked Tubes (Sponsor) Counseling and Support Emotional Aspects Find the best fertility care General Procedures Infertility Myths & Facts Sperm Injection Intrauterine Adhesions Introduction to IVF Book: How to Have a Baby IVF Cost In Vitro Fertilization Infertility Risk Factors Infertility Treatments Male Factor Medications Older Female Patients Ovarian Hyperstimulation Peak Fertility Calculator Weight and Fertility Adoption ADOPTION INFOMATION Adoption Glossary Consent to Adoption Guide to Adoption Stepparent Adoption Rights of Presumed Fathers Who may Adopt Pregnancy PREGNANCY INFORMATION Baby Names Cord Blood Screening for Birth Defects Multiple Pregnancy Pregnancy Exercise Videos Pregnancy Pains Recurrent Pregnancy Loss Parenting PARENTING TIPS Child Glossary Child Safety Education Newborn Development Preschool Development Special Needs Children Toddler Development

Currently Active Chat Room Users: 0 \| Scheduled Chat Room Events
	Users in Chat Rooms: No one's chatting right now!

03-06-2009, 02:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
BC-BabyPrayers09 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 1,793	Baby Steps: Firstly, I am so sorry for your losses I know as well as any, the pain that your feeling. How locked in are you with this shared risk cycling? That was always my fear of doing that, I was afraid that I would not be happy, then have to stay. Do you lose money if you leave? How much control do you have about picking out the donors? Are they proven donors, or first time ones? Have the other recipients in your cycles gotten pg? If so, then maybe your just not getting the best of the bunch, kwim? Does the clinic do a 3 or 5 day transfer? Sorry for all the questions, but it just helps to evaluate the situation a bit better.

04-11-2009, 11:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
DadToBe 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 213	Baby Steps - Did you use the same egg donor both times? How many eggs were retrieved, and how many made it on to fertilization and to blastocysts? Also, you might want to consider having your husband's sperm analyzed. With us ... we failed our first IVF attempt. Then, all of a sudden our embryologist and RE suggested we had our sperm tests (we're a male-male couple using a GS and egg donor) because they said that even though both of our sperm counts were high, we could still have a high ratio of sperm DNA fragmentation. Sperm with fragmented DNA will still fertilize the eggs, but they will fail to develop and implant. We used SCSA diagnostics (www.scsadiagnotics.com) and the cost was very minimal (compared to the overall cost of this whole IVF thing!!), so it was worth knowing. Like yourself, I also have little faith in our RE. He seems to be juggling too many cases to give any which one any sort of personal attention they all need. But, alas ... we're in our second 2WW now. Also, of course there's PGD (pre-genetic determination/diagnosis). Although many would recommend this due to success with this, I would never recommend this due to a bad personal experience with it - although it was a bad experience due to our specific clinic. With our first IVF cycle, we had 18 embryos. The RE insured us over and over that PGD has zero effects on the embryos - that pulling off one of their cells would not lead to any negative effects on them. Well, to keep it short, after the PGD, all embryos stopped developing.

04-13-2009, 02:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
DadToBe 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 213	Rhonda, You're welcome. I'm so sorry for all that you've been put through. I honestly can tell you that I absolutely understand the turmoil and frustration that you must have felt and are feeling. Not just financially, but these processes take such an emotional toll. I'll keep you updated on what happens, but our beta got moved up from this coming Thursday to Wednesday (April 15th).

04-14-2009, 09:49 AM	#7 (permalink)
4cats 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: nyc Posts: 203	I was given the DE speech after a couple failed IVFs. Since we couldn't afford DE anyways, AND I had suspicions that there might me more wrong with DH than low counts we tried DS IUIs. Well it turns out it was him and it only took a couple DS IUIs to get one that stuck. I wish we'd done more testing on DH sperm before we'd done 3 IVFs w ICSI! I'm hoping your testing reveals what the problem is and saves you more emotional and physical stress.

04-14-2009, 05:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
DadToBe 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 213	Rhonda - I'm so excited to report to you that our beta was actually bumped up to today by our RE even though he's on vacation in Israel, and it came back positive!!!! The HCG was 402 and we're 12dp5dt. We're definitely happy and excited, but at the same time, we're cautiously excited. I think anyone who's gone through IVF disappointments like your family and ours know too well that they need to brace themselves for the any possibilities.

04-21-2009, 06:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
DadToBe 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 213	Thank you, Rhonda! Our ultrasound is next Wednesday, April 29th. Work is letting me off for the afternoon so I'll get to be there with our surrogate. I'll let you know what they see. Definitely very nervous and anxious, though.