6.2 million sperm count and zero normal

tenseintexas · 03-16-2009, 05:13 PM

already posted about this in another thread, so forgive me for repeating myself. I was hoping to find someone who had had an experience similar to mine.

We went in this morning for my first IUI and my husband's count was only 6 million ( pre washing) ( It was 18 last time we checked)..APparently that was not even the worst...the measure for "Percent normal" was 0. ZERO!!!! ( It was 25% normal at the last check) So I asked the nurse, through tears,
what was the point of even doing an IUI today and she said because it was subjective and they could of missed some. The washed sperm number was 1.7 million. So needless to say I have very little hope. I am so down about this. I have just gotten used to doing the whole IUI process and the nurse is already talking to me about doing IVF.
Why would of everything have gone down so drasticly in his count?
I just wondering if anyone else had had this happen...I know that it only takes one...but zero normal!!
Are we wasting time with IUI? Should we go straight to IVF?

**BC-pepper** · 03-16-2009, 05:21 PM

We had one test come back with 0 normal forms. All other tests showed 11-15% normal. It could be a bad test, or their rules might be very strict. IVF with ICSI can overcome the problem, but you may want to retest in a month or so and see if it was a fluke. IUIs are much cheaper than IVF. Is he on a new medication? Diet? Lots of stress?

tenseintexas · 03-16-2009, 06:27 PM

The first two counts the number was low ( 14 and 18 million) and the morphology was 25% the first time and went up the second time....Motility went down a lot too...so maybe it was a fluke? I dont know. I am beginning to think maybe it is stress....He is in sales and this economy is not making his job very eay..I am thinking wait and see what the next month numbers look like.....if it is that low again, maybe IVF?
Did you concieve with the low numbers? I was really hoping not to do IVF...but I do not want to keep doing IUI if it is useless....

CJ71903 · 03-17-2009, 07:32 AM

Has your husband been to a urologist? My husband also has 0% Strict Krueger Morphology, while his WHO morphology was normal. They did an exam and u/s and found a varicocele, which my husband will be having surgery to have repaired two weeks from today. Have they done any bloodwork on your husband? These might be some things to look into before going the IVF route if you haven't done them already. I know how frustrating all of this can be. I keep having dreams about everyone that is having babies around me and it is so hard. I just worry that I will never be able to get pregnant and have our own baby myself.

tenseintexas · 03-17-2009, 07:41 AM

Yes, he has done bloodwork- all normal- and an ultrasound--again all normal. We were hoping so hard there was variocele...that sounds weird, but at least that is fixable and not some mystery reason!..The 0% was on the Kruger scale...what does that mean?? The other lab , I do nto think, was the Kruger scale...what is the difference??
I have the same worries!!!! Adoption is so expensive!!!

CJ71903 · 03-17-2009, 08:36 AM

The Krueger Strict scale is more strict - in order for a sperm to be considered "normal", it must be perfect. My husband's urologist said that he thinks that the techs at the lab that my husband had his SA done at are overcalling things sometimes. The WHO (World Health Organization) criteria is not as strict and looks for other things for a sperm to be considered abnormal. We were told by my husband's doctor though that some WHO labs are starting to use Krueger Strict criteria when analyzing sperm morphology. If that's not confusing, I don't know what is.

I've been told by my husband's urologist that IUI can work for 0% morph and that IVF can work, as well. I've actually talked to other women who have had IVF done with 0% morph. and they have given birth, so that's proof right there. Has your husband had a DNA Fragmentation test?

tenseintexas · 03-17-2009, 08:38 AM

No- he has not done the DNA test...should he?

CJ71903 · 03-17-2009, 08:44 AM

It might not be a bad idea. Is his urologist a specialist in male factor infertility? My husband's is and he wanted my husband to take the DNA Fragmentation test. It's a kit that they send to your house (it's done through a third party lab) and then a courier comes and picks up the sample after it's done. My husband's DNA Fragmentation was normal, which we were relieved to hear. Some doctors don't put a lot into the test, but some think that it might help to determine ART success rates, or even IVF vs. IUI success rates. The jury is still out on the test really, but it might not be a bad thing to ask your urologist about.

**BC-pepper** · 03-17-2009, 09:13 AM

Hi, his first test was Kruger and it came back at 0%. I think the others must have been WHO (11-15%). He did see a urologist and he didn't have any answers for us - he thought IUI would eventually work. We did not do a DNA test that I'm aware of. We went through 1 IUI and 3 IVF-ICSIs. None of those resulted in a pregnancy. I didn't respond well to meds or the ER was mis-timed, because I always had a large % of immature eggs, which made for fragmented and arresting embryos. I did have a chemical pregnancy the summer before IVF#2, but not another until after our ds was born (via adoption). I had been suppressing my cycles taking medication to breastfeed him and when I decided I was done, I ovulated and got pregnant. Talk about cliches! Our ds and dd are 16 months apart. We have been without birth control for quite a long time and have experienced no subsequent pregnancies. I wish I knew what made dd come along - we'd get right to it.

CJ71903 · 03-17-2009, 09:28 AM

That is awesome that you had the surprise pregnancy! How long ago was the Krueger test taken? We do not have any children yet. We are both 26 years old and I've been tested (b/w and HSG) and they can't find anything wrong with me, so we're thinking it must be the 0% morph that's the problem. It's making me very sad lately. Some friends of ours just told us that they are pregnant, after one month of not really trying, no less and another acquaintance just had her baby boy yesterday. I can't seem to snap out of this funk that I've been in the last few days since I found out about our friends' pregnancy. We've been trying for over a year now.

03-16-2009, 05:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
tenseintexas 900-999 post jack of hearts Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 913	6.2 million sperm count and zero normal already posted about this in another thread, so forgive me for repeating myself. I was hoping to find someone who had had an experience similar to mine. We went in this morning for my first IUI and my husband's count was only 6 million ( pre washing) ( It was 18 last time we checked)..APparently that was not even the worst...the measure for "Percent normal" was 0. ZERO!!!! ( It was 25% normal at the last check) So I asked the nurse, through tears, what was the point of even doing an IUI today and she said because it was subjective and they could of missed some. The washed sperm number was 1.7 million. So needless to say I have very little hope. I am so down about this. I have just gotten used to doing the whole IUI process and the nurse is already talking to me about doing IVF. Why would of everything have gone down so drasticly in his count? I just wondering if anyone else had had this happen...I know that it only takes one...but zero normal!! Are we wasting time with IUI? Should we go straight to IVF?

03-17-2009, 09:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
BC-pepper 5000-9999 post king of hearts Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: GA Posts: 8,923 Blog Entries: 100	WARNING pg and children mentioned Hi, his first test was Kruger and it came back at 0%. I think the others must have been WHO (11-15%). He did see a urologist and he didn't have any answers for us - he thought IUI would eventually work. We did not do a DNA test that I'm aware of. We went through 1 IUI and 3 IVF-ICSIs. None of those resulted in a pregnancy. I didn't respond well to meds or the ER was mis-timed, because I always had a large % of immature eggs, which made for fragmented and arresting embryos. I did have a chemical pregnancy the summer before IVF#2, but not another until after our ds was born (via adoption). I had been suppressing my cycles taking medication to breastfeed him and when I decided I was done, I ovulated and got pregnant. Talk about cliches! Our ds and dd are 16 months apart. We have been without birth control for quite a long time and have experienced no subsequent pregnancies. I wish I knew what made dd come along - we'd get right to it.

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03-16-2009, 05:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
BC-pepper 5000-9999 post king of hearts Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: GA Posts: 8,923 Blog Entries: 100	We had one test come back with 0 normal forms. All other tests showed 11-15% normal. It could be a bad test, or their rules might be very strict. IVF with ICSI can overcome the problem, but you may want to retest in a month or so and see if it was a fluke. IUIs are much cheaper than IVF. Is he on a new medication? Diet? Lots of stress?

03-16-2009, 06:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
tenseintexas 900-999 post jack of hearts Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 913	The first two counts the number was low ( 14 and 18 million) and the morphology was 25% the first time and went up the second time....Motility went down a lot too...so maybe it was a fluke? I dont know. I am beginning to think maybe it is stress....He is in sales and this economy is not making his job very eay..I am thinking wait and see what the next month numbers look like.....if it is that low again, maybe IVF? Did you concieve with the low numbers? I was really hoping not to do IVF...but I do not want to keep doing IUI if it is useless....

03-17-2009, 07:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
CJ71903 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: USA Posts: 35	Has your husband been to a urologist? My husband also has 0% Strict Krueger Morphology, while his WHO morphology was normal. They did an exam and u/s and found a varicocele, which my husband will be having surgery to have repaired two weeks from today. Have they done any bloodwork on your husband? These might be some things to look into before going the IVF route if you haven't done them already. I know how frustrating all of this can be. I keep having dreams about everyone that is having babies around me and it is so hard. I just worry that I will never be able to get pregnant and have our own baby myself.

03-17-2009, 07:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
tenseintexas 900-999 post jack of hearts Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 913	Yes, he has done bloodwork- all normal- and an ultrasound--again all normal. We were hoping so hard there was variocele...that sounds weird, but at least that is fixable and not some mystery reason!..The 0% was on the Kruger scale...what does that mean?? The other lab , I do nto think, was the Kruger scale...what is the difference?? I have the same worries!!!! Adoption is so expensive!!!

03-17-2009, 08:36 AM	#6 (permalink)
CJ71903 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: USA Posts: 35	The Krueger Strict scale is more strict - in order for a sperm to be considered "normal", it must be perfect. My husband's urologist said that he thinks that the techs at the lab that my husband had his SA done at are overcalling things sometimes. The WHO (World Health Organization) criteria is not as strict and looks for other things for a sperm to be considered abnormal. We were told by my husband's doctor though that some WHO labs are starting to use Krueger Strict criteria when analyzing sperm morphology. If that's not confusing, I don't know what is. I've been told by my husband's urologist that IUI can work for 0% morph and that IVF can work, as well. I've actually talked to other women who have had IVF done with 0% morph. and they have given birth, so that's proof right there. Has your husband had a DNA Fragmentation test?

03-17-2009, 08:38 AM	#7 (permalink)
tenseintexas 900-999 post jack of hearts Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 913	No- he has not done the DNA test...should he?

03-17-2009, 08:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
CJ71903 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: USA Posts: 35	It might not be a bad idea. Is his urologist a specialist in male factor infertility? My husband's is and he wanted my husband to take the DNA Fragmentation test. It's a kit that they send to your house (it's done through a third party lab) and then a courier comes and picks up the sample after it's done. My husband's DNA Fragmentation was normal, which we were relieved to hear. Some doctors don't put a lot into the test, but some think that it might help to determine ART success rates, or even IVF vs. IUI success rates. The jury is still out on the test really, but it might not be a bad thing to ask your urologist about.

03-17-2009, 09:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
CJ71903 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: USA Posts: 35	That is awesome that you had the surprise pregnancy! How long ago was the Krueger test taken? We do not have any children yet. We are both 26 years old and I've been tested (b/w and HSG) and they can't find anything wrong with me, so we're thinking it must be the 0% morph that's the problem. It's making me very sad lately. Some friends of ours just told us that they are pregnant, after one month of not really trying, no less and another acquaintance just had her baby boy yesterday. I can't seem to snap out of this funk that I've been in the last few days since I found out about our friends' pregnancy. We've been trying for over a year now.