Morphology and RPL

TTCyears · 08-23-2008, 02:33 PM

Anybody heard of a link between MF (specifically morphology) and recurrent pregnancy loss?

My DH's count is normal, but his morphology and now motility are in the grey zone; his lowest morphology was 5% strict (mild MF?). We have lost 3 pgs, very early (1st was missed; 2nd and 3rd HCG ~200).

Wishing you all the best of luck!

I could use some.

Hugs,
~Sharon

mk37994 · 08-23-2008, 04:36 PM

I have read that DNA Fragmentation in the sperm even if the count is normal can cause recurrent pregnancy loss. There is a test to check for it. See the link.
http://www.malereproduction.com/sper...structure.html

TTCyears · 08-23-2008, 09:04 PM

mk, thank you for the quick response. I've seen that site, and tend to believe it. My city's only urologist who specializes in infertility shrugged it off. He implied the only studies to support it are by the companies who sell it. My DH follows the dr's order and the dr didn't give an order.

When I hadn't been pg in 2 yrs after 2mcs, my DH's morphology was 5% strict. I requested he try TCM herbs, which he did, and coincidentally or not his morphology increased to 14% strict (and forward progression and motility, everything improved!). I was pg w/in 4 mos and mc'd (his morpholgy was back down to 8%). There is nothing to say that the TCM herbs were the reason for the SA improvement and our doctors would shrug saying there are no studies, so DH didn't take any more, after all we mc'd anyhow and teas 2x daily is a hassle. Sigh.

Have you talked to your RE/urologist about it? What did they say?

~S

mk37994 · 08-23-2008, 10:14 PM

My urologist said the test is not 100% conclusive but it could shed some light. My wifes RE said it doesnt make much of a difference. Any book i've read typically the re will say its not going to help, but the urologist will push for it. The re stands to gain more money if you dont get it corrected, and it causes issues.

DeeBee · 08-23-2008, 11:17 PM

I thought strict morph at 4% and above was normal. Correct me if I'm wrong but my DH just had it done (his came back 2%) and the urologist said 4% and above is good and then I double checked it online????

TTCyears · 08-24-2008, 09:24 AM

mk, is she your "wife", your "DW"?

What have you heard to "get it corrected"? Our urologist said why spend money to know when there's nothing to do for it.

DeeBee, <4% is severe male factor, >4% is "favorable" to conception, but abnormal; 14% is normal. That my DH is in the "grey zone" is our urologist's words. Two links... the first is with pretty pictures, in the second link see the notes in parenthesis.

http://www.aia-zavos.com/Strict_Sperm_Morphology.html
www.fcionline.com/pdf/Strict_Morph_3.pdf

mk37994 · 08-24-2008, 12:25 PM

TTC you are right 14% is normal. I had varicocele repair im up to 11% from less then 2%. The quility and quantity of the sperm has greatly improved. The problem is if the person does have a decent size of fragmentation and nothing works to fix it, alot of studies are showing it can cause even ivf to not work.

DeeBee · 08-25-2008, 10:57 AM

TTC and mk: Thanks for your information. Apparently our urologist office likes to sugar coat things. They made it sound like morph was just a little low. I wish they would have given us a more straight forward answer. DNA fragmentation test not available yet. Should be soon.

TTCyears · 08-25-2008, 07:10 PM

mk, thanks. I am glad you had such a significant improvement!!

DeeBee, wishing your DH a treatment plan that is successful!

mattiejo · 09-01-2008, 06:53 PM

This is all so depressing to me. Here is my history: 5 IUI's all BFN, 3 IVF's with 1 chemical, 2 FET's with 1 BFN and I just found out today that the 2nd FET did not work. I did get pg and my beta numbers were #1 102, #2 176, #3 59.

Our situation is MF with normal sperm count but low morph and motility. How freaking helpless we feel. I mean you can eat well, exercise, yada yada but if your DH sperm have genetic issues then forget it. What upsets me is that yes maybe we do have a small chance of getting pg but at what cost? We just used the last chance in our shared risk program. How may times do we have to try before we achieve success? How are we going to affored this expensive crap. I am making my DH do acu and TCM for 3 months just to see if it helps.

08-23-2008, 02:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
TTCyears 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 239	Morphology and RPL Anybody heard of a link between MF (specifically morphology) and recurrent pregnancy loss? My DH's count is normal, but his morphology and now motility are in the grey zone; his lowest morphology was 5% strict (mild MF?). We have lost 3 pgs, very early (1st was missed; 2nd and 3rd HCG ~200). Wishing you all the best of luck! I could use some. Hugs, ~Sharon Last edited by TTCyears; 08-23-2008 at 07:52 PM.

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08-23-2008, 04:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
mk37994 100-199 post 3 of hearts Join Date: May 2007 Location: NY Posts: 154	I have read that DNA Fragmentation in the sperm even if the count is normal can cause recurrent pregnancy loss. There is a test to check for it. See the link. http://www.malereproduction.com/sper...structure.html

08-23-2008, 09:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
TTCyears 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 239	mk, thank you for the quick response. I've seen that site, and tend to believe it. My city's only urologist who specializes in infertility shrugged it off. He implied the only studies to support it are by the companies who sell it. My DH follows the dr's order and the dr didn't give an order. When I hadn't been pg in 2 yrs after 2mcs, my DH's morphology was 5% strict. I requested he try TCM herbs, which he did, and coincidentally or not his morphology increased to 14% strict (and forward progression and motility, everything improved!). I was pg w/in 4 mos and mc'd (his morpholgy was back down to 8%). There is nothing to say that the TCM herbs were the reason for the SA improvement and our doctors would shrug saying there are no studies, so DH didn't take any more, after all we mc'd anyhow and teas 2x daily is a hassle. Sigh. Have you talked to your RE/urologist about it? What did they say? ~S

08-23-2008, 10:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
mk37994 100-199 post 3 of hearts Join Date: May 2007 Location: NY Posts: 154	My urologist said the test is not 100% conclusive but it could shed some light. My wifes RE said it doesnt make much of a difference. Any book i've read typically the re will say its not going to help, but the urologist will push for it. The re stands to gain more money if you dont get it corrected, and it causes issues.

08-23-2008, 11:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
DeeBee 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 261	I thought strict morph at 4% and above was normal. Correct me if I'm wrong but my DH just had it done (his came back 2%) and the urologist said 4% and above is good and then I double checked it online????

08-24-2008, 09:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
TTCyears 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 239	mk, is she your "wife", your "DW"? What have you heard to "get it corrected"? Our urologist said why spend money to know when there's nothing to do for it. DeeBee, <4% is severe male factor, >4% is "favorable" to conception, but abnormal; 14% is normal. That my DH is in the "grey zone" is our urologist's words. Two links... the first is with pretty pictures, in the second link see the notes in parenthesis. http://www.aia-zavos.com/Strict_Sperm_Morphology.html www.fcionline.com/pdf/Strict_Morph_3.pdf

08-24-2008, 12:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
mk37994 100-199 post 3 of hearts Join Date: May 2007 Location: NY Posts: 154	TTC you are right 14% is normal. I had varicocele repair im up to 11% from less then 2%. The quility and quantity of the sperm has greatly improved. The problem is if the person does have a decent size of fragmentation and nothing works to fix it, alot of studies are showing it can cause even ivf to not work.

08-25-2008, 10:57 AM	#8 (permalink)
DeeBee 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 261	TTC and mk: Thanks for your information. Apparently our urologist office likes to sugar coat things. They made it sound like morph was just a little low. I wish they would have given us a more straight forward answer. DNA fragmentation test not available yet. Should be soon.

08-25-2008, 07:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
TTCyears 200-299 post 4 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 239	mk, thanks. I am glad you had such a significant improvement!! DeeBee, wishing your DH a treatment plan that is successful!

09-01-2008, 06:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
mattiejo 300-399 post 5 of hearts Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 346	This is all so depressing to me. Here is my history: 5 IUI's all BFN, 3 IVF's with 1 chemical, 2 FET's with 1 BFN and I just found out today that the 2nd FET did not work. I did get pg and my beta numbers were #1 102, #2 176, #3 59. Our situation is MF with normal sperm count but low morph and motility. How freaking helpless we feel. I mean you can eat well, exercise, yada yada but if your DH sperm have genetic issues then forget it. What upsets me is that yes maybe we do have a small chance of getting pg but at what cost? We just used the last chance in our shared risk program. How may times do we have to try before we achieve success? How are we going to affored this expensive crap. I am making my DH do acu and TCM for 3 months just to see if it helps.