Another IVF or Just Move On??

[babylovu]

Hi Everyone! I posted this on the multiple-IVFer's forum but thought maybe someone could give me some insight here. My husband and I are dealing with stictly male factor infertility. We had an IVF cycle (long-Lupron) in March that resulted in a BFN. I had 14 eggs retrieved, 11 were mature, and 7 fertilized. By the 4th day, our embryos were becoming pretty fragmented and only 2 of them were going to blast stage. We did a 6 day transfer and the 2 they transferred were only early blasts, with a lot of fragmentation. My RE told me they could still result in a pregnancy and gave them a grade 2 (1 being best, 4 being worst), but when I got the picture of the embryos, I could just tell they were not healthy embryos and I have an untrained eye!
Anyway, that cycle resulted in a BFN, and when we met with our RE, he said he thinks it had nothing to do with the sperm and everything to do with egg quality and that I did not produce very many eggs and he would push the envelope next time. I am only 23 and I find it hard to believe it was my eggs. My husband has low sperm count, low motility, and 0% morphology. I just feel like it is the sperm, especially since our embryos were looking perfect until day 4, when they started to fragment, arrest, and grow very slow. I read somewhere that the mother's DNA is only activated and then on day 4, the father's DNA becomes activated...has anyone else heard that?
I guess we are just struggling between trying another IVF with my husband's sperm or just moving onto donor sperm IUI. Has anyone had any experiences like this and/or used donor sperm after having a failed IVF with DH's sperm? I guess I just don't know where to go from here, and hubby is okay with using donor sperm but RE says he doesn't think it's necessary...I'm just confused

Btw, RE said he would change me to an antagonist protocol next time to create more eggs.

[KimAtFertilityAuthority]

Hi babylovu,

I am so sorry you are facing this kind of decision. My H has low morph (2%), but doing IVF with ICSI bypasses count, motility, and morph all together. I would do another IVF with the antagonist protocol as your RE is suggesting before moving on to donor sperm, but of course it is your call. Maybe you can ask the RE to explain a little more about why the cycle failed?

Good luck!

Kim

[babylovu]

Thank you for your input, Kim! It is nice to hear what other people think just because sometimes my mind races and I feel like I don't think rationally sometimes when it comes to IF. I guess we are worried about money, too, and if we do another IVF and it still fails, we will be out so much and have nothing to continue treatments if need be.
**success mentioned** I looked at your profile and that is awesome you had G/B twins on your first IVF! Stories like that make me have so much more hope!

[KimAtFertilityAuthority]

That puts you in a tricky situation then. Couples like us with morph issues don't have high success rates with IUI. So, in the case of IUI donor sperm would be your best bet. Some clinics have financing options. Have you checked into that? There are also programs like Cade Foundation that offer family building grants, though I am not familiar with their requirements.

[kukuko]

I'm sorry this cycle didn't work. If you decide to move on to donor sperm, you should consider doing ivf with half of the eggs fertilized with donor sperm and half with your DH. That will give you the clearest answered to whether it really is an egg issue and if it truly is a sperm issue then the half fertilized with donor sperm should result in good blasts for transfer. Good luck whatever you decide.

[SC-Stargazerlily]

I'm sorry this cycle didn't work. If you decide to move on to donor sperm, you should consider doing ivf with half of the eggs fertilized with donor sperm and half with your DH. That will give you the clearest answered to whether it really is an egg issue and if it truly is a sperm issue then the half fertilized with donor sperm should result in good blasts for transfer. Good luck whatever you decide.

This is often suggested as a way to determine the problem when the fertilization doesn't seem to be as good as it should be.

I agree with Kim. We are completely male factor as well. ICSI takes care of the issues you mentioned. We have a severely low count as well as low morph and motility. I was 26 when we did our fresh cycle. They retrieved 15 mature eggs and all 15 fertilized. (17 total) Only 3 were not strong enough and didn't make it to transfer or freeze. So, we had 12 total. I can definitely understand the finances playing a role in deciding what to do next. We pay all out of pocket also. If money were not an issue, I would suggest another IVF, possibly with partial donor sperm to rule out sperm issues.

Good luck!

[babylovu]

Thanks for everyone's input! We have thought about doing half donor sperm and half DH's sperm if we do another IVF, but I guess I just figured we might as well do donor sperm IUI if we are going to have embryos from donor sperm IVF that we would transfer or freeze and eventually use. It all seems the same to me. The only thing is that we might have some embryos with DH's sperm, but if we have any to freeze, we would try to use them all eventually, even if they were donor sperm...so we could potentially have donor sperm babies either way, and we might as well do the cheaper option (IUI). Who knows...I guess we will see after we do this IUI with DH's sperm.

Also, thanks Kim for mentioning Cade...I well need to look into that

[Ng24]

We have a similar problem. We have gone through 2 ivf cycles with poor results. The first time I only had 10 eggs retrieved and 5 mature. No blasts. Second try I got 17 eggs and 14 mature with 8 fertilized and my day three 6 good 8 cell embryos. It's only on day five when we had just one late blast and two Morulas. We transferred ( per my request) on day 6 and BFN. This third cycle we want to try donor sperm with the first 10 of we get that many and vitrify he rest of the eggs. My husband has azoospermia due to congenitally missing vas deferens and the dr. keeps telling me that it's an egg issue. Mind me, I'm only 24 and dH is 26. I hope that you guys make the right decision that will result in a little one for you. We are also hopeful, but are also pursuing adoption as well. Good luck!!!!

[babylovu]

Wow, Ng24, are stories are exactly alike. I am only 23 and my doctor keeps telling me it is an egg problem too, but I find that so hard to believe since I don't have any known fertility issues and my husband has the problems. I wonder why doctor's are so against saying it might be a sperm issue?? What protocols were you on for your IVF? My doctor wants to try antagonist protocol this time around to see if I can get more eggs. Have you thought about doing donor sperm IUI if you don't have any problems?

[Ng24]

My dr. Said that they used to think every case was a egg quality issue of it didn't work out and that a good egg fixes the problems of a bad sperm. I don't know I've heard much conflicting information by now I just don't believe anything he says. I'm not perfect though, I have endo but responding well to the meds... I honestly don't know what the future will be for us whether we'll do more ivf cycles if this doesn't work or go straight to adoption. We don't have any insurance coverage and this is sooo expensive!!!!