Dumbledore (end of book spoiler)

Phud · 07-30-2005, 12:11 PM

Dumbledore says to Harry that in the few times he's been wrong, he's been wrong in a big way. Erinn and I are watching PoA and it hit me that Dumbledore was REALLY wrong about Sirius Black. That seems to be a big mistake about someone in the Order of Phoenix. Obviously he was wrong about Peter Pettigrew too. Again...a pretty hefty wrong. Interesting. Makes me wonder if Harry has something in how he feels about Snape. Just a thought...

BTW...have you seen the website for the new movie? http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/go...ire/index.html

Check out the Triwizard Tournament to see who they cast as school champions. I thought they did a good job.

Jenn · 07-30-2005, 05:45 PM

After reading the book i felt the same way--that this was one of dumbeldore's "biggies" as far as being wrong but after reading some other reader opinions on other sites i've gotten to thinking a bit more....trying to read small hints in between the lines, including the fight Hagrid overheard between D & snape..those things....somehow i don't think snape will turn out "fully" evil at the end but i definitely think it'll have more to do with Draco than Harry.

I agree about the characters though i thought they kinda went the wrong way with Krum's character--he's too pretty.

The description in the book made him sound way uglier than the guy they cast.

Jenn

AngelaM · 08-05-2005, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC-Jenn

I agree about the characters though i thought they kinda went the wrong way with Krum's character--he's too pretty.

The description in the book made him sound way uglier than the guy they cast.

Jenn

And, I thought the character they picked for Fleur didn't seem "pretty" enough. The book made her sound like some drop dead gorgeous person. While she doesn't appear to be homely, she's not exactly a raving beauty either IMHO.

Doreen · 08-05-2005, 06:39 PM

I've been thinking about the Dumbledore/Snape thing. I'm sure I'm not coming up with anything profound...but...

(I need to re-read this chapter, I'm on my 2nd pass, but obviously not devouring it like the 1st time)

Dumbledore arguing with Snape is making me think. Would Snape have come to D to tell him what date things were planned? I recall Snape pressuring Draco to give him details. So, anyway, what if Snape told D what day it was planned for and D knew the trouble he'd be up against with the Horcrux, so he planned to take Harry that day, figuring he'd live through it, but be very close to dead, so timed it that way. D would be weak, hurt, in pain, and through the whole book he'd never gotten his hand to heal, so maybe he planned his end and asked Snape to do it in conjunction with his helping Harry find that Horcrux.

I do not think Harry is a living Horcrux. That's too bizzzzzare.

Also, someone commented that Snape did no damage on his way out, and did comment to leave Harry for V, so Harry was left alive.

I'm still out with the jury on Snape being good. Gosh, I want to think so just because I love Alan Rickman so very much in this role. But on the other hand what this book truly lacked this time was someone to 'hate'. It was easy to hate Umbridge. It was easy to hate V in GOF. But this book had no clear cut main character to despise other then Snape (and I really can't hate him because of the movie casting). Draco is too innocent, even if he's a little worm.

Oh, and I really thought Harry would have been the one to smuggle something awful into the castle. When the train arrived and he was hidden under his cloak, paralyzed, I would have thought Draco would have slipped something in his pocket. Harry arriving late and not having Filch go over him with the dark magic/item detector and Snape letting him in seemed like it was a setup for something kind of tricky, and I was dissapointed when it didn't happen.

Never thought of Tonks going for Lupine, but I like it. I love the Tonks character and am sorry she (as so many others) weren't touched on more in this book. Also, Kreecher was really a great setup that didn't go anywhere too, you know? And why even mention Mundungus stealing stuff from Sirius's house if you weren't going to take Harry there in this book? Again, weird things that were left out there like plumber's crack. Got to notice them, think it will be something worth watching, but in the end, it was just an idle distraction.

Ginny letting Harry go without so much as a smirk kind of was a let-down.

(oh, man, can you see I was so up for the chat last night???)

MarinaTwinMom · 08-05-2005, 07:00 PM

I think Ginny will end up with Harry in the end. She's not the sort to give up that easily.

LeslieT · 08-06-2005, 07:50 PM

I don't know...I'm not sure if Dumbledore knew fully what was going to happen that night ahead of time. As someone made the excellent point on another thread here, Dumbledore would have done alot more preparing of Harry, said some kind of goodbye to him if he knew it was coming that night. Dumbledore was focused on finding Snape to get healed prior to arriving on top of the tower. Yes, I think he might have been saying to Snape on the tower, via heard words and occlumency, kill me...you have to or you'll die instead (unbreakable vow), and I'm dying already (from the potion in the cave). But I don't think he knew in advance he was going to die that night.

I definitely see Harry with Ginny in the end. Don't know if I see her fully involved in all the happenings in the last book, since it's been Harry, Ron & Hermione tight together from the beginning and it just feels more right for them to be the ones together in the events in the final book. But I think Ginny will definitely be in some of the events and with Harry in the end.

07-30-2005, 12:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
Phud 10000-15000 post ace of hearts Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kuwait City, Kuwait...Middle East...Earth... Posts: 12,196 Blog Entries: 132	Dumbledore (end of book spoiler) Dumbledore says to Harry that in the few times he's been wrong, he's been wrong in a big way. Erinn and I are watching PoA and it hit me that Dumbledore was REALLY wrong about Sirius Black. That seems to be a big mistake about someone in the Order of Phoenix. Obviously he was wrong about Peter Pettigrew too. Again...a pretty hefty wrong. Interesting. Makes me wonder if Harry has something in how he feels about Snape. Just a thought... BTW...have you seen the website for the new movie? http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/go...ire/index.html Check out the Triwizard Tournament to see who they cast as school champions. I thought they did a good job. __________________ Christine, mommy to Connor (11), Erinn (7), and Jack & Paul (8 y/o angels, born 3/15/01, died 3/19/01) I don't need you to remind me of my age. I have a bladder to do that for me. ~Stephen Fry

07-30-2005, 05:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jenn 10000-15000 post ace of hearts Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: GA Posts: 10,634 Blog Entries: 374	After reading the book i felt the same way--that this was one of dumbeldore's "biggies" as far as being wrong but after reading some other reader opinions on other sites i've gotten to thinking a bit more....trying to read small hints in between the lines, including the fight Hagrid overheard between D & snape..those things....somehow i don't think snape will turn out "fully" evil at the end but i definitely think it'll have more to do with Draco than Harry. I agree about the characters though i thought they kinda went the wrong way with Krum's character--he's too pretty. The description in the book made him sound way uglier than the guy they cast. Jenn __________________ Rayna b/d 10/22/01 at 21wks due to IC/PTL Hyland 9/18/02 Brennan born 2/14/07 Pregnant w/surprise miracle baby! IT'S A BOY!!!! 3/00 & 3/02

08-05-2005, 06:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Doreen 5000-9999 post king of hearts Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northeast US Posts: 7,137 Blog Entries: 95	Misc Ramblings!!! I've been thinking about the Dumbledore/Snape thing. I'm sure I'm not coming up with anything profound...but... (I need to re-read this chapter, I'm on my 2nd pass, but obviously not devouring it like the 1st time) Dumbledore arguing with Snape is making me think. Would Snape have come to D to tell him what date things were planned? I recall Snape pressuring Draco to give him details. So, anyway, what if Snape told D what day it was planned for and D knew the trouble he'd be up against with the Horcrux, so he planned to take Harry that day, figuring he'd live through it, but be very close to dead, so timed it that way. D would be weak, hurt, in pain, and through the whole book he'd never gotten his hand to heal, so maybe he planned his end and asked Snape to do it in conjunction with his helping Harry find that Horcrux. I do not think Harry is a living Horcrux. That's too bizzzzzare. Also, someone commented that Snape did no damage on his way out, and did comment to leave Harry for V, so Harry was left alive. I'm still out with the jury on Snape being good. Gosh, I want to think so just because I love Alan Rickman so very much in this role. But on the other hand what this book truly lacked this time was someone to 'hate'. It was easy to hate Umbridge. It was easy to hate V in GOF. But this book had no clear cut main character to despise other then Snape (and I really can't hate him because of the movie casting). Draco is too innocent, even if he's a little worm. Oh, and I really thought Harry would have been the one to smuggle something awful into the castle. When the train arrived and he was hidden under his cloak, paralyzed, I would have thought Draco would have slipped something in his pocket. Harry arriving late and not having Filch go over him with the dark magic/item detector and Snape letting him in seemed like it was a setup for something kind of tricky, and I was dissapointed when it didn't happen. Never thought of Tonks going for Lupine, but I like it. I love the Tonks character and am sorry she (as so many others) weren't touched on more in this book. Also, Kreecher was really a great setup that didn't go anywhere too, you know? And why even mention Mundungus stealing stuff from Sirius's house if you weren't going to take Harry there in this book? Again, weird things that were left out there like plumber's crack. Got to notice them, think it will be something worth watching, but in the end, it was just an idle distraction. Ginny letting Harry go without so much as a smirk kind of was a let-down. (oh, man, can you see I was so up for the chat last night???) __________________ http://doreenat.blogspot.com/ C & D b.1/23/02 IVF/ICSI, 1st attempt D. dx'ed w/autism Dec 2002..."not being able to speak is not the same thing as not having anything to say" J b.3/4/01 gotcha 2/23/07, Stavropol Krai K b.7/12/84, d.11/7/04 an angel soaring high, with no boundaries Suicide is the result of a fatal mental illness "...letting go of a child is impossible" Last edited by Doreen; 08-05-2005 at 06:42 PM.

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08-05-2005, 07:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
MarinaTwinMom 10000-15000 post ace of hearts Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: USA Posts: 19,354	I think Ginny will end up with Harry in the end. She's not the sort to give up that easily.

08-06-2005, 07:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
LeslieT 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 2,608	I don't know...I'm not sure if Dumbledore knew fully what was going to happen that night ahead of time. As someone made the excellent point on another thread here, Dumbledore would have done alot more preparing of Harry, said some kind of goodbye to him if he knew it was coming that night. Dumbledore was focused on finding Snape to get healed prior to arriving on top of the tower. Yes, I think he might have been saying to Snape on the tower, via heard words and occlumency, kill me...you have to or you'll die instead (unbreakable vow), and I'm dying already (from the potion in the cave). But I don't think he knew in advance he was going to die that night. I definitely see Harry with Ginny in the end. Don't know if I see her fully involved in all the happenings in the last book, since it's been Harry, Ron & Hermione tight together from the beginning and it just feels more right for them to be the ones together in the events in the final book. But I think Ginny will definitely be in some of the events and with Harry in the end.