Please help: Natural vs Lupron cycle

[KayD]

Hi,
I really need some help from some of you out there who understand all this. I am getting ready to do a FET and I wanted to do a natural cycle so I don't have to do through the whole Lupron thing again. (I've done this once already with Lupron, the progesterone injections and the estrogen injections, only to have none of the embryos make it through the thaw.) My period is a bit irregular (usually a 28-day cycle but once every 3 months or so it goes much longer, about 40 days, then back to normal for a few months). I understand from my reading that I could conceivably do a Clomid cycle (to make me regular that month and be sure I ovulate) and do the FET 3 days after the LH surge. Thing is, my clinic won't even discuss this with me. They say that natural (or Clomid/natural) cycles don't work as well and they'll only do the Lupron cycle. It seems so insane to me to turn off my cycle, and add back in, artifically, all the same things my body was going to produce quite naturally. When checked with no meds, my levels are good and my lining always thick. Seems so crazy to turn that off, just to add it back from the outside. But again, they say it doesn't work as well. (Or could it be that the Lupron cycle is just more convenient for them?? I dunno.) My questions are these: First, is it at all true that natural or Clomid/natural FET cycles don't work as well as Lupron cycles? My second question will get me blasted I think (I hope not - I'm just asking is all). If I let the clinic think I'm doing the Lupron cycle but really just do a natural cycle, would they know? I mean, they're checking my hormone levels every couple of days I know, but they're looking for levels that "mimic" a natural cycle ANYhow, so wouldn't they be seeing what they expected anyway?
I'm so unbelievable torn. I want this so badly, and will of course do the Lupron cycle in a heartbeat if that's truly my best chance. But if it really doesn't matter, I'd so much rather do it naturally! Is there anyone out there who can answer if the clinic would or could even know the difference? Or IS there a difference?
Thanks, and thanks for being patient with this neurotic newbie!
Kay.

[marya]

If you have regular cycles the statistics should be about the same between natural and medicated cycles. If you don't normally have regular cycles then it may not be.

Also, if lupron is your concern, you do not need to be on lupron for a medicated cycle. My medicated cycle had no lupron. On CD 3 I went on delestrogen injections every 3 days. 5 days before the intended transfer (with blasts) I went in for b/w and u/s to make sure that I had not ovulated (the purpose of lupron is to guarantee no ovulation, but with the delestrogen injections it is very rare to ovulate) and to check my lining. I started PIO that night and kept it up through beta. My cycle was a success.

[Meesh2]

I'm currently pg from a natural FET. I've always heard that natural cycles have the same success rate as medicated cycles, as long as you ovulate and have normal hormone levels. Maybe your clinic hasn't had very good luck with them? Or they like to have more control over the cycle instead of being at the mercy of your body. To answer your question about would they know -- yes I'm sure they would. Even if they didn't, it's not a good idea because in a natural cycle, they carefully monitor you by ultrasound to check for your ovulation. Timing is so important. Actually, they would know because when they do your ultrasound to check your lining, they would see that you are developing a follicle and you would probably be cancelled (and scolded for not taking your medications!). Maybe you can talk to your doctor and explain to him that it's something you really want to do. If you are really against it, you could consider transfering your embies to a clinic who will do a natural cycle with you. Best of luck to you.

[KayD]

Thank you all for your quick and helpful answers! I really appreciate the time it took to reply (and for not getting yelled at for my question about "tricking" the clinic)!
Oh. Yes. I'd forgotten about the ultrasound to check my lining. Right, ovulation sure would show up. Thanks for that reminder! Ok so that's out for sure. A completely natural cycle when they think I'm on various meds will not work and is a bad idea.
Okay, so, if estrogen given early enough stops ovulation (I didn't know that!), I wonder why they feel it necessary to use Lupron too? I wonder if I could just drop out the Lupron then and do everything else I'm supposed to. (And yes, it is the Lupron I don't want to deal with again. I sure will if it's the only/best way, of course, but if estrogen, delestrogen injections with this clinic, by the way, will do the same thing...?) Thing is, will their various blood tests, taken after Lupron was supposed to start but before estrogen actually does, tell them I didn't take the Lupron?
It's so stupid, really. I went to this clinic because they have great statistics and the doctors are really nice. Yet, I'm second guessing them and trying to figure out a way to do things differently than they (with their great numbers!) do routinely. Really, I know how silly this sounds, I feel it too. But they're really closed-minded about doing things any other way than they "normally" do, and I really want to try to avoid the Lupron assault on my body. I don't know what to do. If I knew I could just drop the Lupron out of this mix and do everything else as they want, and they wouldn't/couldn't know I did that, I would just do that. Sounds like there's as good a chance of it working that way. (Except for the post from Sinead, who makes me think maybe I ought to just bite the bullet and do it the way the clinic wants me to! Maybe that IS my best chance. This clinic, btw, does everything as you described Sinead, except the Viagra.)
Any more words of wisdom? Anyone have any idea if I just drop the Lupron and stick to everything else (estrogen shots, then progesterone, medrol, antibiotics) if I run the risk of them getting "wise" and cancelling my cycle? I sure don't want that. And I talked to my husband about possibly moving to a different clinic who is more open to a non-Lupron cycle and he really doesn't want to. Don't know what to do here.
Thanks again - lots.

Kay

[marya]

Tell them that you have done the research and are willing to risk ovulating during your cycle (and having it canceled) and don't want to take lupron and if they aren't ok with that you will take your embies and your business elsewhere. I had do do a similar thing with my clinic (for a different issue). RE clinics sometimes forget that they are service providers and no matter what these are our embies and our bodies. We are the ones assuming all of the risk, so they need to back off. It is their job to advocate for the protocol they think is best, but we are the ones who get final say. So long as the decision is not unethical or unequivocately puts us in harm's way doctors do need to abide by their patient's wishes.

If you don't do lupron, do make sure you are doing estrogen injections and not just patches, pills or suppositories. I was on .2ml of delestrogen every 3 days and no lupron. Don't do it behind your clinic's back, you shouldn't need to do that. Push them on the issue.

Good luck!

[KayD]

Thank you both so much. I can't tell you how much i appreciate all the help!! I have a phone consultation thing with them tomorrow and will talk to them in detail about all this stuff. Will see how far it gets me!
Marya, one quick question: Was that dose of .2 ml (that the same as .2 cc??) of delestrogen every 3 days steady throughout? When I did the Lupron last time, they had me start the delestrogen at .1 cc every 3 days, and then upped it to .2 cc every 3 days. Was that the same for you?
(not looking forward to those painful shots again)
I wonder why in heavens name they do Lupron at all if the very same dose of delestrogen that they give ANYhow will work to stop ovulation. I don't understand at all.
Thank you all again!!
Hugs,
Kay

[rashin4]

How come if not taking Lupron or BCP's , you have to take Injectibles.. My doctor said its the same...please explain..

[rashin4]

I am also planning of a semi natural fet as I have long irregular cycles... My RE rejected natural FET completely... I have to talk to him regarding Clomid