DE Embryos left to freeze

maddiemonk · 09-02-2008, 06:09 PM

I did a DE IVF ICSI cycle last year and m/c at almost 11 weeks. We retrieved 22 eggs from our donor and 18 fertilized.

Only 3 made it to Day 5 and we transferred all three. After the m/c we were unable to get any chromosomal info on the tissue.

I found out that our donor cycled again with another couple and they just gave birth to a healthy child.

I am terrified that my two m/c's (the first one was at age 43, natural pregnancy) have been a result of my DH sperm. We have done every test in the world including genetic testing on his sperm and everything is normal.

I am always hearing about women who have many Donor Embryos to freeze. Are my concerns unwarranted?

Any experience with number of embryos frozen during DE IVF cycle would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

TinaDom · 09-06-2008, 11:52 PM

Hi Diane,
First let me say how sorry I am to hear about your m/c. It must be hard to not know the reasons behind it.
I cannot answer if the numbers of donor embryos you had is good/not so good as this is my first DEIVF cycle.
My donor had 22 eggs retrieved. Of those, 10 fertilized by the next day - 8 using ICSI, 2 'naturally'. On transfer day we used 2 good embies, and I just found out yesterday that we have 5 frozen (1 good, 2 fair to good, 2 fair).
Hope this information can help you and I wish you all the best.

didy · 09-07-2008, 09:06 AM

Hi Diane,

I didn't realize that your last cycle was a DE cycle.

Is there a possibility that the embryologist made a mistake? Or the donor eggs were not good? And that was why you had the m/c.

My RE retrieved 20+ eggs from 1st and 3rd donor and most of them survived day 3. Rule of thumb, about 80% will survive day 3. My 1st donor produced 22 eggs, 18 survived day 1 and 15 survived day 3. We transferred 4 day 3 embryos and froze the rest.

According to my RE, normally the eggs from young donors are healthy, but nothing is a guarantee. You know the outcome of all these transfers. I strongly feel that my body is rejecting all these embryos. Not sure what though

Good luck!

tab11 · 09-07-2008, 11:49 AM

maddie, one thing I've noticed is that there's a big difference between freezing on day 3 and freezing on day 5. Most people who freeze on day 3 will have plenty to freeze, but what majority of them are viable? Our embryologist said that between day 4 and 5 is the critical time for embryos, where they either make it to blast or they don't. For instance, with our last cycle we had 8 out of 12 fertilize. By day 4, all 8 were still dividing and 5 of those were morulas (the stage right before blast), so everything looked great. By day 5, we had just 2 blasts and the others had stopped dividing. So between day 4 and 5, six of them went by the wayside. With our first DE cycle, we transferred 2 and had 2 left to freeze. I know there are some exceptions, but it seems that those who freeze on day 5, will only have a few to do so with.

I've been told by more than one RE that studies have shown 60% of DE eggs have chromosomal abnormalities. Yes, DE eggs from young women. That's one of the reasons why even a healthy 20-something year old only has a 25% of achieving pregnancy each month. So I would say if you've had all the tests for sperm and it looks OK, try not to worry about it!

**BC-donor** · 09-10-2008, 12:10 PM

Out of all my cycles, we have never had a single embryo survive to be frozen. Having some to freeze isn't as common as one would think!! Most RE's take embryo's to blasts before freezing them, but some RE's freeze at day 2 or 3, so there will be more to freeze. One never knows the quality of the embryo's though, so whether an FET will work or not is anyone's guess.

Hang in there!!

Have you considered getting a 2nd opinion? Perhaps that would ease your fears some?

cs1984cs · 09-19-2008, 04:06 PM

I didn't have any to freeze; I was told by my RE that when going to Day 5 it's not unusual to have nothing to freeze. However, day 5 is when the egg actually descends into the uterus so it's closer to nature (for the lack of a better word) to have a day 5 transfer. Anyway, here is something interesting:

3 vs 5 day transfers article by an embryologist/andrologist
REMOVE THE * after you paste it in your browser. There is a reason I did that.

http://shared*journey.com/articles/3vs5.html
NO SUGAR COATING

09-02-2008, 06:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
maddiemonk 600-699 post 8 of hearts Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: new york city Posts: 601	DE Embryos left to freeze I did a DE IVF ICSI cycle last year and m/c at almost 11 weeks. We retrieved 22 eggs from our donor and 18 fertilized. Only 3 made it to Day 5 and we transferred all three. After the m/c we were unable to get any chromosomal info on the tissue. I found out that our donor cycled again with another couple and they just gave birth to a healthy child. I am terrified that my two m/c's (the first one was at age 43, natural pregnancy) have been a result of my DH sperm. We have done every test in the world including genetic testing on his sperm and everything is normal. I am always hearing about women who have many Donor Embryos to freeze. Are my concerns unwarranted? Any experience with number of embryos frozen during DE IVF cycle would be much appreciated. Thanks! __________________ Me(47) DH(44) DE IVF ICSI 10/08 BFP We had a girl on June 30th at noon! 2 med. IUI cycles 3/08 & 4/08 BFN DE IVF ICSI 6/07 BFP 8/07 Natural pregnancy@43 11/05 12/05

09-07-2008, 11:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
tab11 300-399 post 5 of hearts Join Date: May 2007 Location: The West Posts: 395	maddie, one thing I've noticed is that there's a big difference between freezing on day 3 and freezing on day 5. Most people who freeze on day 3 will have plenty to freeze, but what majority of them are viable? Our embryologist said that between day 4 and 5 is the critical time for embryos, where they either make it to blast or they don't. For instance, with our last cycle we had 8 out of 12 fertilize. By day 4, all 8 were still dividing and 5 of those were morulas (the stage right before blast), so everything looked great. By day 5, we had just 2 blasts and the others had stopped dividing. So between day 4 and 5, six of them went by the wayside. With our first DE cycle, we transferred 2 and had 2 left to freeze. I know there are some exceptions, but it seems that those who freeze on day 5, will only have a few to do so with. I've been told by more than one RE that studies have shown 60% of DE eggs have chromosomal abnormalities. Yes, DE eggs from young women. That's one of the reasons why even a healthy 20-something year old only has a 25% of achieving pregnancy each month. So I would say if you've had all the tests for sperm and it looks OK, try not to worry about it! Last edited by tab11; 09-07-2008 at 06:09 PM.

09-10-2008, 12:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
BC-donor 500-599 post 7 of hearts Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 587	Out of all my cycles, we have never had a single embryo survive to be frozen. Having some to freeze isn't as common as one would think!! Most RE's take embryo's to blasts before freezing them, but some RE's freeze at day 2 or 3, so there will be more to freeze. One never knows the quality of the embryo's though, so whether an FET will work or not is anyone's guess. Hang in there!! Have you considered getting a 2nd opinion? Perhaps that would ease your fears some? __________________ Multiple DE cycles, finally successful

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09-06-2008, 11:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
TinaDom Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 34	Hi Diane, First let me say how sorry I am to hear about your m/c. It must be hard to not know the reasons behind it. I cannot answer if the numbers of donor embryos you had is good/not so good as this is my first DEIVF cycle. My donor had 22 eggs retrieved. Of those, 10 fertilized by the next day - 8 using ICSI, 2 'naturally'. On transfer day we used 2 good embies, and I just found out yesterday that we have 5 frozen (1 good, 2 fair to good, 2 fair). Hope this information can help you and I wish you all the best.

09-07-2008, 09:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
didy 100-199 post 3 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: US Posts: 137	Hi Diane, I didn't realize that your last cycle was a DE cycle. Is there a possibility that the embryologist made a mistake? Or the donor eggs were not good? And that was why you had the m/c. My RE retrieved 20+ eggs from 1st and 3rd donor and most of them survived day 3. Rule of thumb, about 80% will survive day 3. My 1st donor produced 22 eggs, 18 survived day 1 and 15 survived day 3. We transferred 4 day 3 embryos and froze the rest. According to my RE, normally the eggs from young donors are healthy, but nothing is a guarantee. You know the outcome of all these transfers. I strongly feel that my body is rejecting all these embryos. Not sure what though Good luck!

09-19-2008, 04:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
cs1984cs Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,198	I didn't have any to freeze; I was told by my RE that when going to Day 5 it's not unusual to have nothing to freeze. However, day 5 is when the egg actually descends into the uterus so it's closer to nature (for the lack of a better word) to have a day 5 transfer. Anyway, here is something interesting: 3 vs 5 day transfers article by an embryologist/andrologist REMOVE THE * after you paste it in your browser. There is a reason I did that. http://shared*journey.com/articles/3vs5.html NO SUGAR COATING