msshino

[bebeblues]

Hi there, I read your reply on the DS users. I wanted to add some information for you to mull over. I have done 3IVFs and we have MFI.

1) I was told after this last cycle (which was a BFN) that I had egg quality issues. I am 32yo, never been told my eggs were bad in previous cycles, have a low FSH(4.5-5.5). I am having my inhibin B and FSH checked again tomorrow.
2) ON my first 2 cycles, the clinic overcooked my eggs-meaning that they r/t'd all mature oocytes, with none immature at retrieval-this causes bad looking embies by Day 3.

3) The new clinic for IVF#3, increased my stims in the beginning of the stim part of the cycle (FSH 300IU + repronex (FSH/LH) went from 75IU to 150IU). I was told my embies did not look good at Day 3, but we had 2 very good looking ones on Day 4 for trf. I was told by SIRM (via online discussion board)that they believe the increased LH was too much LH for me and that can produce aneuploid eggs. I truly believe that's what happened. I knew too much LH caused aneuploid eggs and I had never been on repronex in any past cycles. No one has brought up using donor eggs.

4)We did a split cycle-no RE is going to advise you to do a 50-50 split if you're actually trying to have a chance at a biobaby. They will want to stack the deck heavily for your DHs sperm. We had 22 eggs, 17 went to DH and 5 went to donor. 1 of 17 of DHs sperm fertilized and 4 of 5 donor fertilized. So, we knew the sperm is our issue.

5) Most REs will tell you that sperm are stupid and can be kicked and dropped and smashed and will still fertilize to produce a healthy embryo and its all the eggs fault if the embies don't look good. I don't agree w/ that completely b/c they just don't know enough yet about sperm quality and how embies are effected. But, for the most part, for people unlike my DH and I, that is probably true. My DH and IO have both been karyotyped hoping this would uncover something-we are both normal. They can't specifically disect your sex chromosomes when they do that, just count that they are there as part of the 46 XX or XY.

6) My DH has sperm issues -bigtime, but when they look under a microscope at the sperm, they look normal-our embryologist suggested that my DH may have an extremely rare genetic issue that they can't even uncover at the moment.

7) There is no way yet for them to test individual eggs (actually SIRM has the technology), but they don't offer it as a service as far as I know. So the only way they can tell is by PGD w/ embryos and visually at r/tval.

8)We are getting ready to cycle using DS and i really hope it works and I hope the best for you too, that your dreams come true.

Just wanted to share my knowledge as I've been at this for a looooong time and finally have come to the DS conclusion. My DH is completely cool w/ DS.

Best, Bebe

[msshino]

Dear Bebeblues,

I was just really down today and saw your post. I was so happy to see that there is one more person out there that can understand my thoughts.
My DH has major issues with morphology, motility and antisperm antibodies. But since most embies were bad by day 3 it was just determined to be the egg. That's the only reason my RE told me. He said that everything else was just fine except for hyperstimulation. So the next time we use donor eggs or try IVF again with my eggs but most likely it will end in a m/c again.

So I went on a quest to find out the effect that a sperm has on the egg but no where is there information about this and I turned to the boards. Most people would say it's the egg too. I was determined to say otherwise but I was losing the battle.

I don't think I will do another iVF cycle for a while. We hope to try the IUI first and try donor sperm too. Bu if all else fails we will do IVF again and try a split cycle.

Funny how others feel that sperm has very little to do with the quality of the embryo. You're right they don't know enough about sperm and how they impact the quality of the embryo. But in that case they should still suspect it. But since they didn't, it really got to me.

Glad your DH is ok with DS now. I think my DH is trying to get used to the idea in case our situation doesn't work. But I still think it hurts him a lot. Me too but I so desperately want a baby that I am willing to do whatever it takes. Sounds selfish, I know but somehow my DH understands that too. DH is really good to me.

Thanks for all the info. So helpful and so nice to know that I'm not completely bonkers with my theories.

I am going to switch RE's too. I think mine is too grim for me.

Thanks again. I may PM you too for more advice.

Shino

[KNITWIT]

Msshino,

My RE told me that we really don't know enough about sperm. The SCSA was developed to look at sperm, but even that doesn't tell us enough according to RE. We were looking into DS too. Have ya'll considered alternative treatments? It seems from other boards that 3 months of changed diet/accupuncture can make a difference in morphology and motility.
Good luck,

KW

[msshino]

Hi there,

We did try that for a while. They said that it takes 3 months for the sperm to regenerate so we waited that period and tried the IVF. But still the numbers went up but we still m/c. We are going to try IUI for a while with DH and then later with DS. It's hard to move onto DS but I think it's a wise choice for us for,the IVF process was really hard for the both of us. He had a hard time watching me go thorugh it.

Thanks for the info

SHino

[rb]

This is sort of off topic, but I noticed that you are in Colorado. Which clinic are you going to? DW and I are going to Conceptions. The staff there are quite good. Perhaps a second opinion would help. Take care.

rb

[bebeblues]

MSSHINO-I'm glad I could help.

Bebe

[msshino]

Hi Rb,

I am seeing Dr. Gustofson at Colorado Center for Reproductive Medicine at this time. However, I am seeking a second opinion from Dr. Swanson at Conceptions. I met before with Dr. Bush there but I wasn't too thrilled with him when he rushed us out the door. However, I think with a different doctor things may be a little different.

Best wishes
Shino

[msshino]

Bebeblues,

I was wondering if you have heard of GI issues causing any problems with fertility. I am and have been having a ton of GI issues for a long time. I think that may have something to do with it. I either have IBS or leaky gut syndrome but I haven't had a clear diagnosis just yet. Still seeking an opinion from someone that wont' push me out the door saying I'm healthy.

Shino

[bebeblues]

One thing I've found is that you really have to take authority w/ your ehalth and demand for certain test to be done. Our INF rests completely w/ my DH, so I know nothing about GI issues, but you could post on the main board and I bet you'll get responses.Drs will say, no, you don't have this, and no, you don't have that. Tell them you're willing to pay for the testing and demand to have it done! It is your right as a patient and I'll bet that many issue have been uncovered as a result of some very assertive women demanding testing that saved them lots of time and helped them to reach their goals.

You can also search online Infertility and GI tract or something.
Best, bebe

[KNITWIT]

I totally think that there's a connection between GI issues and IF. You might want to post on the Alternative treatment board. Gut issues seem to be over looked in regards to a variety of health problems. It seems that unless you're bleeding, most Doc's push you out the door as a hypochrondriac. You might want to google "NAET" it's a form of natural allergy treatment that seems to help "leaky gut" and other stuff like that.
Good luck with your search - don't give up - you know your body best of all.

KW