Joe Legal vs Jose Illegal

[BC-Maura]

Originally Posted by Maddy00

Instead of attacking the post itself, if it's so awful and off the wall, then please, show us were it's inaccurate.

Maura couldn't cite specific examples and bakc it up...can you? I'd love to see examples of where it's ALL wrong and how.

I didn't try to cite specific examples because I didn't read it. And I'm not going to.

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Maura

[BC-Maura]

Originally Posted by Pearls

Ruh-roh Maura. Rae caught you in a blurp....

What isn't true about Debbie's original post? Since you are so stringently opposed to it, you really need to back up your objections.....with truth. I'd actually like to know what is not true about it, because I'm certainly ignorant about illegal immigrant things. Educate me!

Don't feel caught!

As for the original post. I object to the viral email itself -- as a viral email. Not going to read it. I don't "need" to back up my objections at all!

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Maura

[BC-Maura]

Originally Posted by Maddy00

Oh I get it, but somehow I think we are not speaking of the same "it" anymore. Your snark is much more entertaining in light of this post today.

I am not a snarky one, but if you feel that I am and are entertained, glad to be of service.

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Maura

[BC-Tracik]

So call a spade a spade folks... who is REALLY to blame for Jose Illegal (which is insulting on more levels then I can count... why use a latino name, only latinos are illegal?) .... their EMPLOYER... that's right that money grubbing employer, many are small business owners who complain about paying more taxes but if they paid payroll taxes MAYBE their other taxes wouldn't go up. Of course there are also large employers paying under the table.... but they tend to fall under more stringent oversights.

So don't put blame on the people here just trying to make a living.. blame those that are giving them a reason to come here... if there were no jobs tempting them many wouldn't take the risk to cross the border.

My dos centavos mi amigas.... Tenga un grandes día y dios bendecirle

[CindiR]

Originally Posted by sheryl

You know, these posts are ridiculous to me. First, I can't imagine posting something without checking the facts. At least do a quick check in snopes. I don't see the point in debating false information. If we are going to debate an actual issue, then let's post the actual issue and not all the false information. Is this board just to inflame, or to do some actual debating?

I agree completely! And this happens all the time on this board lately...it is getting difficult to even be here anymore.

[Maddy00]

Originally Posted by CindiR

I agree completely! And this happens all the time on this board lately...it is getting difficult to even be here anymore.

All of this would have been avoided (this whole off topic discussion) had Maura not so defended one "viral email" as she calls it, and then condescendingly wrote this one off without reading what it says.

I'm still waiting for someone who opposes things listed in tat email to explain which ones they object to and why?

We're TRYING to have a debate here but all anyone who disagrees with us says is either 1. I won't read it and it's all trash. or 2. This place is awful and not worth my time.

Or something to that effect.

Instead of pretending this bb is beneath you, debate the topic. I for one would appreciate an actual discussion on the topics in the OP.

[OzMel]

That is just not true. You know it but still, gotta keep plodding on making the board exactly as people are describing it Or rather, "waaaa, it's not my fault, it's HERS"

Links were provided to disprove the viral email posted. Did you read either of them? They gave examples and explanations of how the email was inaccurate. Not good enough for you? I strongly suspect that nothing would be.

I'm pretty sure the viral email you are referring to was one that contained links and clear, rational examples and paths of verification. A completely different matter than the viral forwards usually posted. Often unauthored and without links to verify, their aim is to inflame, not inform. They are targeted at a certain type of person I think, and they serve their purpose well.

If you can't see the difference between the two then there isn't much that can be done for ya

This is NOT a debate board. It's just not. It is exactly as the PP's have said it is. At least admit it and own it

[LandJ]

Originally Posted by SaraBB

Boy, I am sure glad I got reduced meals when I was going to school. Kept me healthy, helped me learn and now I am an RN, paying lots of taxes for the free meals I ate.

Were your parents here legally?

I certainly don't begrudge the child of a LEGAL resident a free lunch if that family qualifies. However, in a perfect world (which I know it's not) that child of illegals would not even be in school. They would be on a plane headed home.

[BC-Tracik]

Originally Posted by Maddy00

All of this would have been avoided (this whole off topic discussion) had Maura not so defended one "viral email" as she calls it, and then condescendingly wrote this one off without reading what it says.

I'm still waiting for someone who opposes things listed in tat email to explain which ones they object to and why? .

Well technically it is a viral email per definition Viral email - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Viral emails may arise in a number of situations, but the process is relatively simple: an individual receives an email, often (but not exclusively) of a humorous nature, he or she forwards the email to their friends. They do the same, and thus they rapidly spread the email, in potentially worldwide proportion.[1] In this sense, the process is similar to that of an email chain letter, but typically without the explicit requirement to pass it along that is a common part of the chain letter model. A common commercial application for viral emails is that of the viral advertising campaigns: promotional emails are specifically created so that they follow a viral propagation.


However I believe I did previously refute your arguments by pointing on the biggest fallacy of this OP... about the employer.

However if you want a bullet by bullet debate... I did go read Maura's links and they are filled with FACTS concerning the lies and myths in this email. To save people a click... here are some of my favorite parts

The tax myth, since so many here must only pay payroll taxes and no other .... of illegals have a magic wand that exempts them from all other taxes.

[sic] Take, for example, the e-mail’s initial claim:

“Joe Legal” works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted…“Jose Illegal” also works in construction, has “NO” [sic] Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash “under the table”… Jose Illegal pays no taxes.

I was so appreciative to find a credible rebuttal to the false claims in this e-mail on the Immigration Service and Aid Center (ISAAC) Web site. As ISAAC rightfully refutes, “it is simply false to say illegal aliens do not pay taxes.” In reality, undocumented workers pay property, sales, and even income taxes with a number they obtain through the IRS called an ITIN. And yes, some workers do use fraudulent or stolen Social Security Numbers in order to work “on the books.” But unlike Joe Legal, Jose Illegal is not eligible to collect his Social Security payments even when he reaches the appropriate age. The facts are actually much more complex than the e-mail portrays. [sic]

Another myth busted
[sic] 1. "Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted.... "Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Response: The email begins with the fallacy that illegal aliens are being paid off the books. According to the 2005 Economic Report of the President, more than “half of undocumented immigrants are believed to be working ‘on the books,’ so they contribute to the tax rolls but are ineligible for almost all Federal public assistance programs and most major joint Federal-state programs.” You can view the report here.

2. Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year Now take 30% away for state federal tax. Joe Legal now has $31,231.00. Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00. [sic]

I liked this response to given the current health care debate:
[sic] 3. Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00. Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.


Response: Ostensibly, the author of this email is referencing Medi-Cal. According to its official government website, “Medi-Cal is California's Medicaid program. This is a public health insurance program which provides needed health care services for low-income individuals including families with children, seniors, persons with disabilities, foster care, pregnant women, and low income people with specific diseases such as tuberculosis, breast cancer or HIV/AIDS. Medi-Cal is financed equally by the State and federal government.” Eligibility for this program is based upon income. According to the guidance letter for the California Department of Human Services all aliens (legal or otherwise) must go through a verification process and only aliens lawfully residing in California may receive full benefits. Illegal aliens can only obtain emergency service and some child delivery services. Interestingly, it is quite possible that neither Joe nor Jose could qualify for Medi-Cal because of their income. [sic]

Here is a total lie from the email being busted....
[sic]4. Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays for food. $1,000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.00. Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.


Response: Illegal immigrants are not eligible for federal entitlement welfare programs like Food Stamps. Indeed, even legal immigrants are barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years by the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, Pub. L. No. 104-193, 110 Stat. 2105 (Aug. 22, 1996) (codified as 8 USC §§1601 et seq.).
[sic]


So that is just the tip of the ice berg... if you want to read more read Maura's links and you will see why this is a viral email and not even remotely based on fact.

[BC-Tracik]

Originally Posted by LandJ

I certainly don't begrudge the child of a LEGAL resident a free lunch if that family qualifies. However, in a perfect world (which I know it's not) that child of illegals would not even be in school. They would be on a plane headed home.

So what is your stance on kids, who were concieved and born in the US to illegal parents? They are legal US citizens and deserve all the rights and benefits of being a citizen? In your rules... would they be allowed a free lunch?

If you want illegals on a plane... would you seperate parent from child? who will care for those kids left here as legal US citizens?