Fertile Thoughts

Go Back   Fertile Thoughts > Community Forums > Debate Board
Register Blogs HELP/FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read
Chat Users (0) Infertility Information Gallery Online Infertility Book Tickers Green Forum Site Home Page
Register Forum Home Acronyms NEW USERS Avatar Maker COMMUNITY GUIDELINES Free Avatars Clinic Search Recipe Site Contact Us


Currently Active Chat Room Users: 0 | Scheduled Chat Room Events
View Who's Online
Users in Chat Rooms:
No one's chatting right now!
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-14-2009, 07:29 AM   #1 (permalink)
1000-4999 post queen of hearts
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,463
Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25 Pearls Level 25
The Baucus Bill IS a tax on the Middle Class

This is from a former director of the CBO. How much more clear does this have to be????

Douglas Holtz-Eakin: The Baucus Bill Is a Tax Bill - WSJ.com

OCTOBER 13, 2009, 6:54 P.M. ET
The Baucus Bill Is a Tax Bill
By DOUGLAS HOLTZ-EAKIN

Remember when health-care reform was supposed to make life better for the middle class? That dream began to unravel this past summer when Congress proposed a bill that failed to include any competition-based reforms that would actually bend the curve of health-care costs. It fell apart completely when Democrats began papering over the gaping holes their plan would rip in the federal budget.

As it now stands, the plan proposed by Democrats and the Obama administration would not only fail to reduce the cost burden on middle-class families, it would make that burden significantly worse.

Consider the bill put forward by the Senate Finance Committee. From a budgetary perspective, it is straightforward. The bill creates a new health entitlement program that the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates will grow over the longer term at a rate of 8% annually, which is much faster than the growth rate of the economy or tax revenues. This is the same growth rate as the House bill that Sen. Kent Conrad (D., N.D.) deep-sixed by asking the CBO to tell the truth about its impact on health-care costs.

To avoid the fate of the House bill and achieve a veneer of fiscal sensibility, the Senate did three things: It omitted inconvenient truths, it promised that future Congresses will make tough choices to slow entitlement spending, and it dropped the hammer on the middle class.

One inconvenient truth is the fact that Congress will not allow doctors to suffer a 24% cut in their Medicare reimbursements. Senate Democrats chose to ignore this reality and rely on the promise of a cut to make their bill add up. Taking note of this fact pushes the total cost of the bill well over $1 trillion and destroys any pretense of budget balance.

It is beyond fantastic to promise that future Congresses, for 10 straight years, will allow planned cuts in reimbursements to hospitals, other providers, and Medicare Advantage (thereby reducing the benefits of 25% of seniors in Medicare). The 1997 Balanced Budget Act pursued this strategy and successive Congresses steadily unwound its provisions. The very fact that this Congress is pursuing an expensive new entitlement belies the notion that members would be willing to cut existing ones.

Most astounding of all is what this Congress is willing to do to struggling middle-class families. The bill would impose nearly $400 billion in new taxes and fees. Nearly 90% of that burden will be shouldered by those making $200,000 or less.

It might not appear that way at first, because the dollars are collected via a 40% tax on sales by insurers of "Cadillac" policies, fees on health insurers, drug companies and device manufacturers, and an assortment of odds and ends.

But the economics are clear. These costs will be passed on to consumers by either directly raising insurance premiums, or by fueling higher health-care costs that inevitably lead to higher premiums. Consumers will pay the excise tax on high-cost plans. The Joint Committee on Taxation indicates that 87% of the burden would fall on Americans making less than $200,000, and more than half on those earning under $100,000.

Industry fees are even worse because Democrats chose to make these fees nondeductible. This means that insurance companies will have to raise premiums significantly just to break even. American families will bear a burden even greater than the $130 billion in fees that the bill intends to collect. According to my analysis, premiums will rise by as much as $200 billion over the next 10 years—and 90% will again fall on the middle class.

Senate Democrats are also erecting new barriers to middle-class ascent. A family of four making $54,000 would pay $4,800 for health insurance, with the remainder coming from subsidies. If they work harder and raise their income to $66,000, their cost of insurance rises by $2,800. In other words, earning another $12,000 raises their bill by $2,800—a marginal tax rate of 23%. Double-digit increases in effective tax rates will have detrimental effects on the incentives of millions of Americans.

Why does it make sense to double down on the kinds of entitlements already in crisis, instead of passing medical malpractice reform and allowing greater competition among insurers? Why should middle-class families pay more than $2,000 on average, by my estimate, in taxes in the process?

Middle-class families have it tough enough. There is little reason to believe that the pain of the current recession, housing downturn, and financial crisis will quickly fade away—especially with the administration planning to triple the national debt over the next decade.

The promise of real reform remains. But the reality of the Democrats' current effort is starkly less benign. It will create a dangerous new entitlement that will be paid for by the middle class and their children.


Mr. Holtz-Eakin is a former director of the Congressional Budget Office and a fellow at the Manhattan Institute.

Pearls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 07:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
10000-15000 post ace of hearts
 
robine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mountaintop
Posts: 18,486
Blog Entries: 1756
robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25
Pearls, please do not confuse the folks with facts
__________________
The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal. - Peter Brimelow

How many Greats have become the Least for me?
robine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 09:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
1000-4999 post queen of hearts
 
intheknow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sooo Conservative. Oh NO!
Posts: 3,804
Blog Entries: 303
intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25
All of the supporters of a government mandated change in health care: What do you really expect to accomplish and how much do you think it should cost Joe citizen?
__________________
Needed a Hero; Got a Zero.
Impeach Obama!
intheknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 01:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
900-999 post jack of hearts
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 931
andys Level 25 andys Level 25 andys Level 25 andys Level 25 andys Level 25 andys Level 25 andys Level 25 andys Level 25 andys Level 25 andys Level 25 andys Level 25
Like the stimulus bill, and cap and trade, this thing will be a cluster foxtrot of massive proportions. Condemning the middle class and future generations to incredible financial burdens. There is no fiscal responsibility being factored into any of this, and it is just so sad. We are just marching over a cliff.
__________________
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship."
andys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 01:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
10000-15000 post ace of hearts
 
Maddy00's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,021
Blog Entries: 368
Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25 Maddy00 Level 25
The silence is deafening...
__________________
Maddy
Matthew SEVEN!
Nathan is now THREE!
Maddy00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 01:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
10000-15000 post ace of hearts
 
robine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mountaintop
Posts: 18,486
Blog Entries: 1756
robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25 robine Level 25
what say you on the left???
__________________
The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal. - Peter Brimelow

How many Greats have become the Least for me?
robine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 02:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
rae
10000-15000 post ace of hearts
 
rae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: You can take the girl out of TEXAS...
Posts: 13,159
rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25
I don't really think the silence will be deafening on the left. Maybe those here won't speak up, but the unions are already putting advertising dollars into their voices. They don't like the Baucus bill, they want the public option, and they are speaking out.

Moveon's already rallying the troops about a 'flawed bill without a public option'.

Who knows what the Senate bill will look like by the time Reid is through with it? And then, once Pelosi merges it with the House bill, it's going to take on a whole new look all over again.

Unions will oppose Baucus bill unless it's changed - Yahoo! News

Unions will oppose Baucus bill unless it's changed

WASHINGTON – About 30 unions will run a full-page ad in newspapers Wednesday announcing their opposition to the Senate Finance Committee's health overhaul bill, a top labor lobbyist said.

The ad will state that unions will oppose the measure on the Senate floor unless improvements are made, according to Chuck Loveless, legislative director of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.

The ad will state, "Real health care reform and nothing less," Loveless said.

Labor has been a major Democratic ally in the health care debate but is unhappy the legislation lacks a publicly run insurance plan and would tax expensive policies in an effort to drive down costs. Officials also want it to prevent insurance companies from refusing to cover some people and to force employers to cover their workers.

The Finance Committee voted Tuesday to approve the bill, the most conservative of five health overhaul bills congressional panels have written this year. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., plans to combine it with the Senate health committee's more liberal version and bring it to the full Senate in perhaps two weeks.

Besides AFSCME, sponsors included the AFL-CIO and the Communications Workers of America. The ad will run in The Washington Post, USA Today and Capitol Hill newspapers.
__________________
I happen to be a proponent of single-payer, universal health care coverage. (2003) But, I don’t think we are going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out where we’ve got a much more portable system. (2007) Barack Obama
rae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 05:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
BC-tinatinva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Virginia USA
Posts: 4,575
Blog Entries: 49
BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25 BC-tinatinva Level 25
Of course the Unions want the public option.. think about it??? Then they can get the non-union workers to pay part of the tab..
__________________
Tinatinva DD 01/09/01 DS 10/22/03 DS 06-19-06 My 3 FET miracles!!!
"Unbelief cannot live in the sunlight of fellowship with God." - F.B. Meyer
BC-tinatinva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 05:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
rae
10000-15000 post ace of hearts
 
rae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: You can take the girl out of TEXAS...
Posts: 13,159
rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25 rae Level 25
Turns out those 'cadillac' policies are really 'chevy' policies that many of us have, including unions. Those would be highly taxed and the union wants to fight that.
__________________
I happen to be a proponent of single-payer, universal health care coverage. (2003) But, I don’t think we are going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out where we’ve got a much more portable system. (2007) Barack Obama
rae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 11:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
1000-4999 post queen of hearts
 
intheknow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sooo Conservative. Oh NO!
Posts: 3,804
Blog Entries: 303
intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25 intheknow Level 25
So liberals, any responses to my query?
__________________
Needed a Hero; Got a Zero.
Impeach Obama!
intheknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Join now to reply to this thread or open new ones for your questions & comments! FertileThoughts.com is the largest online community about infertility, adoption, pregnancy, parenting, surrogacy and any other family building subjects. Registration is open to everyone and FREE. Click Here to Register!

Google
 


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:53 PM.

DISCLAIMER: Fertile Thoughts allows advertisers to publish information about their services. Fertile Thoughts does not provide medical advice or endorse any particular service or approach to treating infertility. We encourage people to learn as much as possible about the range of options available before committing to any one. We also encourage users to share their thoughts on all fertility options on our forums.

VISIT OUR SISTER SITES:
JustMommies
Pregnancy Calendar
eHarmony Advice
Dating Advice
Project Wedding
Wedding Songs
Weddingbee
Wedding Blog

Copyright © 2009 eHarmony, Inc. All Rights Reserved.