High HCG Levels Very Early

MamaRath · 07-27-2009, 02:05 PM

This is my first post and I'm hoping to get a little insight.

I am currently pregnant with my second, although this is my 4th pregnancy. I got my BFP on 6/25. First beta drawn 6/26, HCG was 226 and progesterone 14.4. Second beta on 6/29 came back 1054. Progesterone was not repeated because they thought the first number was good enough.

I had my first appointment and u/s on 7/21. They u/s dated the pregnancy at 6w2d. I thought I should have been 7w4d, but I have long cycles and later realized adjusting for that I should have measured exactly 7 weeks.

The doctor had me come back today to repeat the u/s to be sure everything was progressing normally. They don't normally do u/s until 8 weeks so they wanted something closer to that date. Today the baby measured 7w1d and the heart rate was 162, and they were very happy with that.

However, the math on that says I got my BFP @ 4 DPO. That would put my HCG @ 226 @ 5 DPO and 1054 @ 9 DPO. That's off any chart I've seen anywhere. Not to mention that a BFP @ 4 DPO seems pretty much impossible. We're not talking about a faint line either, we're talking a dark pink line darker than the control line within a minute of taking the test:

I should probably mention this pregnancy is not medically assisted.

My doctor didn't seem phased by any of this. Two u/s have only shown one baby (early draws made me wonder about twins). I am nearly 37 and discovered fraternal twins run through my mom's side of the family, so I did wonder. I'm fine with just one, however no matter how I look at it I can't seem to make sense of these numbers.

Anyone have any thoughts to share? They would be greatly appreciated.

DMickey28 · 07-29-2009, 04:03 PM

What DPO did you think you were when you got the BFP? I have read about some babies just being slow implanters, taking a little time to get growing. I think that the beta numbers sound fine.

The fact that you saw the heart and baby grew almost exactly 6 days in 6 days is a great sign. The baby just may have been a late implanter. I don't think that 4DPO or 5DPO with those numbers makes sense. Sometimes the charts don't make sense but the ultrasound with a beautiful beating heart is undeniable.

Congratulations!!

MamaRath · 07-29-2009, 10:03 PM

Thanks for the reply. I thought I was 8 DPO when I took the test. I had thought that was too early (I got my BFP at 10 days with my daughter) but I came home from the store and couldn't resist the urge. I was shocked when not only was it positive, but that intense line showed up immediately, darker and thicker than the control line.

The following day was the draw at the doctor that came back at 226, and four days later they repeated it and it was 1054. I thought those numbers were high for 9 and 13 DPO. Now the doctor tells me my BFP was 4 DPO and the first draw was 5 DPO and the second at 9 DPO. I'm thrilled everything looks good, strong heart beat, etc. But I can't find anything anywhere to back up a BFP at 4 DPO and HCG levels that high that fast. It's the fact that the doctor is just brushing it off without thinking she should give me something to ease my concerns that really bugs me.

I have had several people tell me I just need to find a new doctor since she's obviously not listening to my concerns. Even if they weren't valid concerns, she should address them.

DMickey28 · 07-30-2009, 05:37 AM

I thnk that a new doctor would definitely be a good idea. The 4DPO number just does not make sense.

Keep in mind that dating at this early of a stage can vary. Babies, just like children, develop at their own speed. There is no reason your LO can't be a slow developer and catch up or stay a few days behind for the entire pregnancy. Those situations are both very very normal.

The most important thing is that you have a strong heartbeat and a baby that is showing consistant growth. Unfortuntately, even with all the technolody that we have and all the knowledge that we have conception is not black and white.

Congrats and Good Luck.

MamaRath · 07-30-2009, 01:01 PM

It's my understanding the HCG doesn't start production until the embryo implants. It makes sense a late implanter would make the measurements smaller than expected. But that would also go hand in hand with expecting lower HCG numbers.

I also looked at the calendar today and realized I was off a day. I got my BFP on the 24th (it was a Wednesday) the first draw was the 25th (Thursday). There were 4 days between draws because of the weekend. So that means my BFP was 3 DPO and the betas were 4 and 8 DPO. Again, according to the doctor.

Makes no sense and the doctor doesn't seem to care. Just like we worry when our betas are low, if they are unnaturally high that sounds like it could be problematic too, even after seeing a heartbeat. There is a reason there is a normal range and that range is very wide. Being way above or below the normal range means it's not normal.

DMickey28 · 07-30-2009, 01:20 PM

How are you so sure of your ovulation date? Do you chart? OPK's? you said this was a medically unassited cycle so I assume you were not monitored by Ultrasound to see when you O'd.

I read ONCE, and can't find the article of course, that HCG is produced once the egg is fertilized however it obviously does not get into our system until the egg implants. I thought that was interesting but it makes sense since the baby starts growing even before it implants with the cells dividing and such.

I agree with you that abnormally high HCG levels can be a cause for concern but in those circumstances, that I have seen/read about, usually the doubling time is very very low. Your doubling time seems perfect.

MamaRath · 07-30-2009, 01:37 PM

Both charting and OPKs. We were trying for 6 months for this pregnancy and every month I ovulated on day 18 of a 32 day cycle. If I had ovulated earlier that would make the measurements that I already think are behind even further behind.

I did a little research to try to be sure of how it all works (even though I thought I knew) and I read that HCG begins once the embryo implants because it's given off by the placenta.

It's funny, because the beginning of my research was over the weekend between my first and second beta draws. The nurse actually told me my HCG was low - without any knowledge of how far along I might be - so I started reading what I could about HCG levels. I was amazed at how wide the ranges of normal were, and to find that my "low" numbers were actually nearly double what would be considered the high end of normal.

The happy ending here would have been finding twins on an ultrasound, to explain the higher numbers. The scary thing is reading that higher hcg levels can also be early indicator of genetic abnormalities. My doctor made an offhand comment that "if there were any genetic abnormalities we woudn't know until about 20 weeks anyway." I never mentioned genetic abnormalities, she said my numbers were fine then mentions genetic problems? My age puts me at an increased risk for genetic issues, but why say it's fine, then say "we wouldn't know until 20 weeks anyway."

DMickey28 · 07-30-2009, 01:44 PM

Do you chart online?

MamaRath · 07-30-2009, 01:56 PM

I only marked my menstrual cycles on the online calendar. It started to predict day 18 based on the length of my cycle and I used OPKs that confirmed it. The only thing online is when I would mark the 1st day of a new cycle. I didn't see much need for more documentation than that. Of course, now I wish I had more detailed info available for print.

DMickey28 · 07-30-2009, 02:01 PM

So your positive OPK's lined up with O day on CD18? When do you start with the OPK's?

07-27-2009, 02:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
MamaRath 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8	High HCG Levels Very Early This is my first post and I'm hoping to get a little insight. I am currently pregnant with my second, although this is my 4th pregnancy. I got my BFP on 6/25. First beta drawn 6/26, HCG was 226 and progesterone 14.4. Second beta on 6/29 came back 1054. Progesterone was not repeated because they thought the first number was good enough. I had my first appointment and u/s on 7/21. They u/s dated the pregnancy at 6w2d. I thought I should have been 7w4d, but I have long cycles and later realized adjusting for that I should have measured exactly 7 weeks. The doctor had me come back today to repeat the u/s to be sure everything was progressing normally. They don't normally do u/s until 8 weeks so they wanted something closer to that date. Today the baby measured 7w1d and the heart rate was 162, and they were very happy with that. However, the math on that says I got my BFP @ 4 DPO. That would put my HCG @ 226 @ 5 DPO and 1054 @ 9 DPO. That's off any chart I've seen anywhere. Not to mention that a BFP @ 4 DPO seems pretty much impossible. We're not talking about a faint line either, we're talking a dark pink line darker than the control line within a minute of taking the test: I should probably mention this pregnancy is not medically assisted. My doctor didn't seem phased by any of this. Two u/s have only shown one baby (early draws made me wonder about twins). I am nearly 37 and discovered fraternal twins run through my mom's side of the family, so I did wonder. I'm fine with just one, however no matter how I look at it I can't seem to make sense of these numbers. Anyone have any thoughts to share? They would be greatly appreciated.

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07-29-2009, 04:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
DMickey28 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 10	What DPO did you think you were when you got the BFP? I have read about some babies just being slow implanters, taking a little time to get growing. I think that the beta numbers sound fine. The fact that you saw the heart and baby grew almost exactly 6 days in 6 days is a great sign. The baby just may have been a late implanter. I don't think that 4DPO or 5DPO with those numbers makes sense. Sometimes the charts don't make sense but the ultrasound with a beautiful beating heart is undeniable. Congratulations!!

07-29-2009, 10:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
MamaRath 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8	Thanks for the reply. I thought I was 8 DPO when I took the test. I had thought that was too early (I got my BFP at 10 days with my daughter) but I came home from the store and couldn't resist the urge. I was shocked when not only was it positive, but that intense line showed up immediately, darker and thicker than the control line. The following day was the draw at the doctor that came back at 226, and four days later they repeated it and it was 1054. I thought those numbers were high for 9 and 13 DPO. Now the doctor tells me my BFP was 4 DPO and the first draw was 5 DPO and the second at 9 DPO. I'm thrilled everything looks good, strong heart beat, etc. But I can't find anything anywhere to back up a BFP at 4 DPO and HCG levels that high that fast. It's the fact that the doctor is just brushing it off without thinking she should give me something to ease my concerns that really bugs me. I have had several people tell me I just need to find a new doctor since she's obviously not listening to my concerns. Even if they weren't valid concerns, she should address them.

07-30-2009, 05:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
DMickey28 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 10	I thnk that a new doctor would definitely be a good idea. The 4DPO number just does not make sense. Keep in mind that dating at this early of a stage can vary. Babies, just like children, develop at their own speed. There is no reason your LO can't be a slow developer and catch up or stay a few days behind for the entire pregnancy. Those situations are both very very normal. The most important thing is that you have a strong heartbeat and a baby that is showing consistant growth. Unfortuntately, even with all the technolody that we have and all the knowledge that we have conception is not black and white. Congrats and Good Luck.

07-30-2009, 01:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
MamaRath 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8	It's my understanding the HCG doesn't start production until the embryo implants. It makes sense a late implanter would make the measurements smaller than expected. But that would also go hand in hand with expecting lower HCG numbers. I also looked at the calendar today and realized I was off a day. I got my BFP on the 24th (it was a Wednesday) the first draw was the 25th (Thursday). There were 4 days between draws because of the weekend. So that means my BFP was 3 DPO and the betas were 4 and 8 DPO. Again, according to the doctor. Makes no sense and the doctor doesn't seem to care. Just like we worry when our betas are low, if they are unnaturally high that sounds like it could be problematic too, even after seeing a heartbeat. There is a reason there is a normal range and that range is very wide. Being way above or below the normal range means it's not normal.

07-30-2009, 01:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
DMickey28 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 10	How are you so sure of your ovulation date? Do you chart? OPK's? you said this was a medically unassited cycle so I assume you were not monitored by Ultrasound to see when you O'd. I read ONCE, and can't find the article of course, that HCG is produced once the egg is fertilized however it obviously does not get into our system until the egg implants. I thought that was interesting but it makes sense since the baby starts growing even before it implants with the cells dividing and such. I agree with you that abnormally high HCG levels can be a cause for concern but in those circumstances, that I have seen/read about, usually the doubling time is very very low. Your doubling time seems perfect.

07-30-2009, 01:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
MamaRath 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8	Both charting and OPKs. We were trying for 6 months for this pregnancy and every month I ovulated on day 18 of a 32 day cycle. If I had ovulated earlier that would make the measurements that I already think are behind even further behind. I did a little research to try to be sure of how it all works (even though I thought I knew) and I read that HCG begins once the embryo implants because it's given off by the placenta. It's funny, because the beginning of my research was over the weekend between my first and second beta draws. The nurse actually told me my HCG was low - without any knowledge of how far along I might be - so I started reading what I could about HCG levels. I was amazed at how wide the ranges of normal were, and to find that my "low" numbers were actually nearly double what would be considered the high end of normal. The happy ending here would have been finding twins on an ultrasound, to explain the higher numbers. The scary thing is reading that higher hcg levels can also be early indicator of genetic abnormalities. My doctor made an offhand comment that "if there were any genetic abnormalities we woudn't know until about 20 weeks anyway." I never mentioned genetic abnormalities, she said my numbers were fine then mentions genetic problems? My age puts me at an increased risk for genetic issues, but why say it's fine, then say "we wouldn't know until 20 weeks anyway."

07-30-2009, 01:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
DMickey28 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 10	Do you chart online?

07-30-2009, 01:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
MamaRath 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8	I only marked my menstrual cycles on the online calendar. It started to predict day 18 based on the length of my cycle and I used OPKs that confirmed it. The only thing online is when I would mark the 1st day of a new cycle. I didn't see much need for more documentation than that. Of course, now I wish I had more detailed info available for print.

07-30-2009, 02:01 PM	#10 (permalink)
DMickey28 0-99 post 2 of hearts Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 10	So your positive OPK's lined up with O day on CD18? When do you start with the OPK's?