Low Betas but Doubling/ Bleeding - Need Advice!

daisysmom · 08-21-2007, 10:29 AM

Hi,

I have had the following betas after my first IVF transferring one embryo:

12dp3dt = 19
14dp3dt = 34
16dp3dt = 83
23dp3dt = 773 (yesterday)

I have US scheduled for next Wed, but today I had a lot of bleeding over a few hours with one clot near the end. I had some cramping and bleeding near 14dp3dt that lasted a few days. The cramps were significant, but not severe. Since this just happened again today I am very worried. I called the doctor but they haven't called back yet. I'm thinking this could be a miscarriage. However, if it was, would it stop like it did?

When they called me yesterday with the 773 number, the nurse was happy with the doubling rate, but wanted to remain cautiously optimistic. They are thinking this could be ectopic because even though they are doubling, the numbers are lower than normal.

If anyone had a similar experience, please reply....good or bad. I'm not holding too much hope for this pregnancy.

Thanks,
Diane

Please

AthenaD · 08-22-2007, 04:59 AM

I don't have any experience, but I wanted to reply and wish you the best of luck. I've read on here in the past that it's not unusual to have some bleeding after IVF (I bled at beta time with IUI!).

What did the doctor's office say? I hope that they called you back! Please update.

daisysmom · 08-22-2007, 05:53 PM

Thanks so much for your replies, guys.

They did call me yesterday afternoon. They said that bleeding and cramping can be normal. They asked about the bleeding/cramping severity as they are concerned about ectopic...it's hard for me to say on a scale of 1-10 what my cramping was like. It was like a 2-3 I told her. She said I would know if the pain was real bad...I'd be bent over in pain. She also said that she doesn't think I miscarried because I would have bled more (I bled less than one pad worth during that short period of time). I am wondering if my body wanted to push out that clot-like mass (sorry TMI). I haven't had bleeding at all today, just some very light brown spotting. I have still had my backache, but that is better today, too. I feel more like myself today...went to work, etc. But, I am still tired and achey. She said I could get another beta but even if it doubled, the proof will be in next week's US. She told me that I have to call them immediately if I have the sharp pains that radiate from my abdomen to my shoulder (ectopic) but otherwise to wait until next week.

Nikki - my cramping is more in the left side, but that is because I have a left unicornuate uterus (born that way)...all my reproductive organs are on the left...and I only have one kidney to boot! There is a slight increase in risk of miscarriage and premature delivery, but I was given the green light to go through IVF with no concerns. I'm wondering if some of my early pregnancy symptoms are anatomy related. I'm sure they will say probably not, but I wonder. Also, I only had one embryo transferred (because of the concern of uterus size), so I wonder if that could be why my betas started lower. Anyway, it's lots to think of. I'm going to drive myself mad between now and next Wednesday!!!

Thanks for replying,
Diane

KKB · 08-22-2007, 06:25 PM

Hi Diane -

My sister is our gestational carrier and we just did our first transfer in June, with two 3 day embryos. She also has a unicornuate uterus, and only has a tube on her right side. I should mention she's had 2 pregnancies of her own, both went past term which is great.

Our betas were really good at first, up until about 5 1/2 weeks, when she had a bleeding episode with some back ache stuff and mild cramp-like pain on her right side. She was concerned about an ectopic, but our RE didn't think it was likely because her level of pain wasn't that severe (and they did see a sac in the uterus on u/s). The betas continued to be good for another few days, and then they slowed right down, doubling about every 80 hours. She continued to have the pain on the right side, back pain, and had more bleeding about a week later.

We did another u/s at about 6 1/2 weeks and they could see the ectopic at that point. My RE was shocked as she hadn't been in that much pain. Luckily she didn't require surgery and after a few visits to the ER, she's now fine and her betas have gone back to zero.

My RE feels it's possible that her unicornuate uterus may have contributed to the ectopic - we're going to do a few more tests before our next transfer so he can do some trial transfers under u/s to see the flow pattern. Then we go from there. We were told there's a 2% chance of ectopic with IVF, which has now risen to 5-10% for my sister.

It may be nothing, but I would absolutely get an u/s. The difficulty is that they can't see much of anything before betas reach around 1500, even if it is in the tube. But I would watch yourself closely. My clinic would have laid money down that she didn't have an ectopic - but she knew something was right, and as it turned out, she was right.

Best of luck - hope it turns out to be a little uterine stretching and nothing more.

daisysmom · 08-22-2007, 06:53 PM

KKB - thanks for your reply. It scares me, but, with this type of stuff, it seems like you have to stay on top of it more than the docs. I'm thinking that I should get a beta to see if the numbers are going up....and if they are, and high enough for a US, maybe I'll ask for an earlier US. My bleeding episode lasted like 30 mins or less and I passed a clot like tissue mass (about an inch long) and then the bleeding stopped. I thought that could be a m/c, but they said no.

I heard of people having their pattern checked....maybe I'll ask for that in the future if this doesn't work out.

It's so hard to tell....the symptoms for ectopic are the same as for pregnancy. But, from most people I talk to who had natural pregnancies, they had no bleeding, cramping, etc., they were just tired and feeling a little sick. Only one of my friends had bleeding....and she ended up having a vanishing twin with that pregnancy.

Thanks again for your thoughts on this...it really helps me out!

Diane

AthenaD · 08-23-2007, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisysmom

most people I talk to who had natural pregnancies, they had no bleeding, cramping, etc., they were just tired and feeling a little sick. Only one of my friends had bleeding....and she ended up having a vanishing twin with that pregnancy.

I just wanted to add that I had bleeding with this pregnancy in the beginning. I didn't do IVF though. I'm 28 weeks and everything is fine. On the General Pregnancy Board, there's a thread started by SomedayMommy regarding spotting/bleeding in pregnancy. It was bumped up a couple of days ago and you should be able to find it. There's a poll attached that shows that it is not uncommon!

All the best to you. Please update when you can!

jessie_vp · 08-23-2007, 01:44 PM

Diane,

I had almost the same situation as you with very similar low betas to start that rose well. Unfortunately, I ended up having a blighted ovum. I never bled on my own though, in fact the sac kept producing HCG and would not expel itself, so I had to have a d&c to remove it. It was a uterine pg though, not ectopic. There was also leftover tissue that kept my HCG levels up for 4 mos, and I needed a hysteroscopy to remove that. Anyway I certainly hope you have a better outcome!

j

daisysmom · 08-24-2007, 09:33 AM

Thank you for your replies. I have had no bleeding and only very mild cramps (on and off...so far today I've had none). I have had some yellow/brown discharge, but that could be from the prometrium. I have to wait until next Wed for the US. I'm wondering if I should get another beta to see if it dropped off or if it's still up there. I think I mentioned the clotlike tissue that was expelled right after bleeding during that episode earlier this week....do any of you think that could have been the embryonic tissue???? I've googled bleeding and clots/tissue...and really don't like what I'm reading....they all mention miscarriage...but my nurse said that wouldn't have been a miscarriage because I would have bled a lot more (recall I had less than one pad worth with that episode). I guess I'm just trying to figure it out, but I really can't. I'm thinking I could just take hpt's until then to see, but I suspect those read anything above 50 and my beta wouldn't drop tha low that fast. Anyway, any more thoughts?? Thanks!

daisysmom · 08-24-2007, 03:00 PM

Thanks stillhavehope and Nikki.....as you probably inferred from my post...this is driving me a little crazy. I'm generally even keel, but this is even getting to me! I'll let you know what happens next week.

daisysmom · 08-29-2007, 02:03 PM

I am sad to report that I had a miscarriage, sometime around 6-7 weeks. I had my US today and they didn't see anything. My beta was 14 today from 773 last Monday. I guess I fell into the less fortunate 50% or so of people who had bleeding/spotting/cramping during their early weeks. I have an appt on Sept 6 with my RE to talk about the next step. Thanks for your posts and all the best to you gals!

Diane

08-21-2007, 10:29 AM	#1 (permalink)
daisysmom Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 48	Low Betas but Doubling/ Bleeding - Need Advice! Hi, I have had the following betas after my first IVF transferring one embryo: 12dp3dt = 19 14dp3dt = 34 16dp3dt = 83 23dp3dt = 773 (yesterday) I have US scheduled for next Wed, but today I had a lot of bleeding over a few hours with one clot near the end. I had some cramping and bleeding near 14dp3dt that lasted a few days. The cramps were significant, but not severe. Since this just happened again today I am very worried. I called the doctor but they haven't called back yet. I'm thinking this could be a miscarriage. However, if it was, would it stop like it did? When they called me yesterday with the 773 number, the nurse was happy with the doubling rate, but wanted to remain cautiously optimistic. They are thinking this could be ectopic because even though they are doubling, the numbers are lower than normal. If anyone had a similar experience, please reply....good or bad. I'm not holding too much hope for this pregnancy. Thanks, Diane Please

08-22-2007, 04:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
AthenaD 5000-9999 post king of hearts Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NY Posts: 6,952	I don't have any experience, but I wanted to reply and wish you the best of luck. I've read on here in the past that it's not unusual to have some bleeding after IVF (I bled at beta time with IUI!). What did the doctor's office say? I hope that they called you back! Please update. __________________ me (41) dh (49) R 3/06 A 11/07

08-23-2007, 01:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
jessie_vp Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CT Posts: 122	m/c ment Diane, I had almost the same situation as you with very similar low betas to start that rose well. Unfortunately, I ended up having a blighted ovum. I never bled on my own though, in fact the sac kept producing HCG and would not expel itself, so I had to have a d&c to remove it. It was a uterine pg though, not ectopic. There was also leftover tissue that kept my HCG levels up for 4 mos, and I needed a hysteroscopy to remove that. Anyway I certainly hope you have a better outcome! j

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08-22-2007, 05:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
daisysmom Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 48	Thanks so much for your replies, guys. They did call me yesterday afternoon. They said that bleeding and cramping can be normal. They asked about the bleeding/cramping severity as they are concerned about ectopic...it's hard for me to say on a scale of 1-10 what my cramping was like. It was like a 2-3 I told her. She said I would know if the pain was real bad...I'd be bent over in pain. She also said that she doesn't think I miscarried because I would have bled more (I bled less than one pad worth during that short period of time). I am wondering if my body wanted to push out that clot-like mass (sorry TMI). I haven't had bleeding at all today, just some very light brown spotting. I have still had my backache, but that is better today, too. I feel more like myself today...went to work, etc. But, I am still tired and achey. She said I could get another beta but even if it doubled, the proof will be in next week's US. She told me that I have to call them immediately if I have the sharp pains that radiate from my abdomen to my shoulder (ectopic) but otherwise to wait until next week. Nikki - my cramping is more in the left side, but that is because I have a left unicornuate uterus (born that way)...all my reproductive organs are on the left...and I only have one kidney to boot! There is a slight increase in risk of miscarriage and premature delivery, but I was given the green light to go through IVF with no concerns. I'm wondering if some of my early pregnancy symptoms are anatomy related. I'm sure they will say probably not, but I wonder. Also, I only had one embryo transferred (because of the concern of uterus size), so I wonder if that could be why my betas started lower. Anyway, it's lots to think of. I'm going to drive myself mad between now and next Wednesday!!! Thanks for replying, Diane

08-22-2007, 06:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
KKB 1000-4999 post queen of hearts Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,214	Hi Diane - My sister is our gestational carrier and we just did our first transfer in June, with two 3 day embryos. She also has a unicornuate uterus, and only has a tube on her right side. I should mention she's had 2 pregnancies of her own, both went past term which is great. Our betas were really good at first, up until about 5 1/2 weeks, when she had a bleeding episode with some back ache stuff and mild cramp-like pain on her right side. She was concerned about an ectopic, but our RE didn't think it was likely because her level of pain wasn't that severe (and they did see a sac in the uterus on u/s). The betas continued to be good for another few days, and then they slowed right down, doubling about every 80 hours. She continued to have the pain on the right side, back pain, and had more bleeding about a week later. We did another u/s at about 6 1/2 weeks and they could see the ectopic at that point. My RE was shocked as she hadn't been in that much pain. Luckily she didn't require surgery and after a few visits to the ER, she's now fine and her betas have gone back to zero. My RE feels it's possible that her unicornuate uterus may have contributed to the ectopic - we're going to do a few more tests before our next transfer so he can do some trial transfers under u/s to see the flow pattern. Then we go from there. We were told there's a 2% chance of ectopic with IVF, which has now risen to 5-10% for my sister. It may be nothing, but I would absolutely get an u/s. The difficulty is that they can't see much of anything before betas reach around 1500, even if it is in the tube. But I would watch yourself closely. My clinic would have laid money down that she didn't have an ectopic - but she knew something was right, and as it turned out, she was right. Best of luck - hope it turns out to be a little uterine stretching and nothing more.

08-22-2007, 06:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
daisysmom Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 48	KKB - thanks for your reply. It scares me, but, with this type of stuff, it seems like you have to stay on top of it more than the docs. I'm thinking that I should get a beta to see if the numbers are going up....and if they are, and high enough for a US, maybe I'll ask for an earlier US. My bleeding episode lasted like 30 mins or less and I passed a clot like tissue mass (about an inch long) and then the bleeding stopped. I thought that could be a m/c, but they said no. I heard of people having their pattern checked....maybe I'll ask for that in the future if this doesn't work out. It's so hard to tell....the symptoms for ectopic are the same as for pregnancy. But, from most people I talk to who had natural pregnancies, they had no bleeding, cramping, etc., they were just tired and feeling a little sick. Only one of my friends had bleeding....and she ended up having a vanishing twin with that pregnancy. Thanks again for your thoughts on this...it really helps me out! Diane

08-24-2007, 09:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
daisysmom Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 48	Thank you for your replies. I have had no bleeding and only very mild cramps (on and off...so far today I've had none). I have had some yellow/brown discharge, but that could be from the prometrium. I have to wait until next Wed for the US. I'm wondering if I should get another beta to see if it dropped off or if it's still up there. I think I mentioned the clotlike tissue that was expelled right after bleeding during that episode earlier this week....do any of you think that could have been the embryonic tissue???? I've googled bleeding and clots/tissue...and really don't like what I'm reading....they all mention miscarriage...but my nurse said that wouldn't have been a miscarriage because I would have bled a lot more (recall I had less than one pad worth with that episode). I guess I'm just trying to figure it out, but I really can't. I'm thinking I could just take hpt's until then to see, but I suspect those read anything above 50 and my beta wouldn't drop tha low that fast. Anyway, any more thoughts?? Thanks!

08-24-2007, 03:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
daisysmom Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 48	Thanks stillhavehope and Nikki.....as you probably inferred from my post...this is driving me a little crazy. I'm generally even keel, but this is even getting to me! I'll let you know what happens next week.

08-29-2007, 02:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
daisysmom Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 48	I am sad to report that I had a miscarriage, sometime around 6-7 weeks. I had my US today and they didn't see anything. My beta was 14 today from 773 last Monday. I guess I fell into the less fortunate 50% or so of people who had bleeding/spotting/cramping during their early weeks. I have an appt on Sept 6 with my RE to talk about the next step. Thanks for your posts and all the best to you gals! Diane