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Old 03-05-2006, 07:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sophie29
I always start the prometrium on cd 12 - 22. That is very interesting. I have never heard that it can hinder ovulation. Sometimes I wonder if my dr knows what shes talking about. Wouldnt she know this info?? If my progesterone level was 13 on cd 22, doesnt that suppose to mean I already ovulated?? I always start my period on the last day or day after last day I take the prometrium. The last 3 days i have felt very sick to my stomach off and on, kind of losing my appetite. I dont know if its just stress or what. See, back in October before I started all this I had a positive hcg blood level of 130, but then started my period 2 wks later and my dr said it was just a false positive b/c my next hcg level was 0 one week later. I never felt any symptoms when I thought I was pregnant them. But I just feel gross lately. Thank you for listening....
Hi Sophie: I am not a doctor (I don't think any of us are), but we can tell you what we've learned either from our own doctors or from the internet or from the experiences of other FT members. I have seen at least one case where other doctors think that Prometrium will not affect ovulation, but I have also seen cases where other doctors think it will. Most doctors seem to want their patients to take the prog. only AFTER ovulation is confirmed.

Here is an excerpt from another site:

******************************
http://www.geocities.com/happypregnant/

from "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause" by John Lee, MD page 244.

"I had a number of patients in my practice who had been unable to conceive. For two to four months, I had them use natural progesterone from days five to 26 in the cycle (stopping on day 26 to bring on menstruation). Using the progesterone prior to ovulation effectively supressed ovulation. After a few months of this, I had them stop progesterone use. If you still have follicles left, they seem to respond to a few months of suppression with enthusiasm, and the successful maturation and release of an egg. Some of my patients who had been trying to conceive for years had very good luck conceiving with this method. There are even a few children named after me!

On the other side of the coin is the fact that using progesterone prior to ovulation can supress ovulation. In a normal menstrual cycle, the release of progesterone by one ovary functions as a signal to the ovther ovary not to ovulate-- Nature's brilliant plan for avoiding multiple births. If your're using progesterone cream prior to ovulation, chances are good both ovaries will interpret its presence as a sign that the other ovary has ovulated, thus effectively suppressing ovulation.

If you decide to use progesterone while trying to conceive, be sure to begin using it only after you have ovulated each month. You can track your ovulation by taking your temperature each morning before you get out of bed. When you ovulate, the release of progesterone will cause a slight rise in body temperature. Once that has happened, you can safely continue using the progesterone cream."
*********************************

So, your doctor might be wrong or she might be right, but it seems that this is an important enough issue where it might make sense to get a second opinion. If she is not monitoring your cycle other than to give you a blood progesterone test, then how does she know whether or when you are Oing? Especially since the Prometrium might affect the blood tests (I just don't know) and so your 13 on cd 22 might not reflect actual ovulation.

The fact that she told you that a beta of 130 was a false positive is troubling to me. With that kind of number, unless there was lab error (did she mention lab error?), I think you must have been pg and had an early m/c. A beta is not like an HPT (false positives are not at all common with betas).

One more thing to ask her about: I've heard that vaginal progesterone supps are more effective than oral Prometrium pills because you are delivering the prog. directly to the site. My RE used vaginal supps when he gave me progesterone. Just something to think about.

I know we've thrown some big bombshells on you! I hope we haven't upset you, but I think it's important to consider all factors to boost your chances of conceiving.

And as for this cycle, you know, you might be pg, despite the negative HPT. HPTs can show false negatives in the early stages. Will your doctor give you a beta at this point?

Please keep us posted and best of luck!++++++++++++
Maura


Last edited by BC-Maura; 03-05-2006 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Hi guys!

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so angy w/ my dr! Everyone I have spoke to thinks she full of it too. She so nice but I dont think she knows anything now. You have all been soooo helpful. I took another test this morning and it was neg too cd 33. I have a couple of friends that are nurses and they also thought that the whole hcg preg of 130 is unheard of being a false positive. I kept asking my dr how could this be false positive that high and she just kept saying that just happens sometimes. I even did ask about a possible lab mix up, and she was like no.
My dr also said she would only do 3 rounds of clomid and then she will snd me to a fertility expert. I'm on 2nd round, so its like wide spread panic b/c I'll have to face the fact Im getting passed off to a new dr if it doesnt work next month! Did I mention that I'm really mad??? Lol.......I'm going to make a list of questions to ask her tomorrow, any suggestions??????
thank you everyone - You have all helped so much!
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Hi Sophie: Here are some possible questions--

1. What would cause a false positive beta of 130?
2. Isn't it possible that I conceived that month and that I had an early m/c?
3. Do you think that women on Clomid will always ovulate on a specific cycle day?
4. What is the latest cycle day you've seen women on Clomid ovulate?
5. Isn't progesterone the hormone that tells the body not to ovulate? If so, why isn't it the case that taking progesterone prior to O would cause O to be either delayed or prevented altogether?
6. Why did you put me on oral Prometrium, rather than vaginal suppositories?
7. When I got the prog. level of 13 on cd 22, could that have been from the Prometrium and not ovulation?

Hope those help... you know, you said that she is planning to refer you to a fertility specialist after 3 cycles... maybe you should opt to go sooner? It might not be a bad thing to see someone else, to get a second opinion, esp. someone whose speciality is fertility. My OB was very nice too, but my success came only after I went to see an RE!

I know it stinks to be angry, but sometimes anger can propel you to take the next step which will lead to a +++ result!

Best of luck and keep us posted+++++++++++
Maura

Last edited by BC-Maura; 03-06-2006 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thank you for the questions! Do you have any idea why I would not have started my period yet if I stopped the prometrium 11 days ago? Isnt that strange, Dont most people start around the last day of taking it - 1 week later??? I guess this is also a question I should ask the dr! But I think you guys are probably more helpful than she would be.....
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Old 03-05-2006, 12:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hi Sophie: I can think of three reasons why you haven't started AF --

1. You are pg and the HPT is giving you a false negative.
2. You are not pg and are going to get AF soon (if you O'd on cd 20, then you could get AF up to cd 37, assuming a normal LP).
3. You are not pg and didn't O this month (this assumes that the prog. test on cd 22 reflected only the Prometrium and not prog. from O).

Of course, I'm hoping for door number 1. As I said above, just stopping the Prometrium will not necessarily bring on AF, esp. if you O'd around cd 20 (because then your own prog. could be keeping AF away).

Good luck and keep us posted++++++++++++++
Maura
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Sophie, I have to agree with everyone else, a beta of 130 is POSITIVE. Nothing "false" about it. It never "just happens sometimes." Chemical pregnancies do happen sometimes, but its still a pregnancy and needs to be counted as a m/c in your medical history.

Lab error can happen, but this is very, very rare. When I got a + beta, I didn't believe it (esp. because the number was exactly 100 - sounded fishy to me) but I was told the lab runs HCG tests twice, so no room for error.

Maura raised some excellent questions - be sure to ask them!

Would you consider a second opinion with someone else? I know its important to like your doctor, but I'd rather have an @$$ of one that knew what she was doing rather than a nice one that didn't have a clue. Sometimes a different perpective can help a great deal. You don't have to switch, but you just might find some answers that your current doctor may have overlooked.
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Old 03-06-2006, 09:01 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Sophie,
Hope everything went well today. I just started with a Reproductive Endocrinologist (RE) in January and was floored at how much more they could answer than my OB. I was being seen in the same office where I was delivered 30 years ago and really didn't want to switch, but my RE has given us so much hope and a plan which really helps. REs specialize in fertility where OBs don't.
Keep us updated.
Holly
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Old 03-06-2006, 02:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Sophie,
I was seeing my OB for 6 cycles only to finally go see an RE. Once I decided to move on from my OB (who delivered my DS and has been my dr for 15 years) and moved to a specialist, I found out the my OB had been over-prescribing me! He had me on so much clomid, that it actually was preventing me from getting pregnant. RE's know so much more than OBs because that's all they do day and night. I feel like I'm finally on the right track now and am so much more relaxed because of it.

My OB also had me taking Prometrium starting on cd14 no matter what. He wasn't timing my cycles either. It wasn't until I found out that Prometrium can hinder O'ing, that he agreed and started me 3dpo.

From my experience, don't waste your time anymore with your OB. Move up to the real specialist. It's worth it!

Feeling mad and confused is natural. At least you can move on and start on the right track! Good luck, Sophie and know that you're not alone. We're all here with you.

xxx's and ooo's
Keep your chin up,
Nina
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
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update please?

Sopie,
Please update us on what your Doc said. Hope eerything is ok
Holly
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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well,

I spoke w/ my dr's nurse today. She told me that prometrium does not hinder ovulation and in fact can help regulate. She said that they have had many successful pregnancys taking the prometrium this way, suspicious. But I have an appt on wednesday to talk things over w/ my dr. So the nurse said to bring in my sources regarding this issue for the dr. to read over. She also told me that the prometrium woulnd not effect my progesterone level. She said something about the prometrium doesnt effect this level and only your body's natural level shows up. It was soooo wierd! It was like she was very confident of all this, just the total opposite of everything i've read!!! She then had me come in to take a blood test which was negative. So, now I will have to wait and speak w/ dr on wednesday and im going to ask for the referal to go to a specialist. Thank you for all your support! hopefully I will get more questions answered on wedneday and a new dr!!!!!
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